How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

nonewnormal21
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:10 pm

Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by nonewnormal21 »

I think this thread should be better titled "How long until it is time to accept the obvious" and maybe consider that this is not about a virus anymore?

The pandemic ended in Spring. Since then governments and other opportunists driving various policies (like UN 2030 and corporate agendas) took full advantage of the situation and fear that has been generated by the media. That's why we got the 180 degree turn from the "herd immunity" strategy and pre-2020 pandemic planning into "masks for all" and "lockdowns forever" by summer's end.

The rest of the excess death is most likely due to a combination of mismanagement of care homes in spring (clearing out the hospitals to make room), the NHS shutting down much non-COVID care, and normal seasonal respiratory and other death.

People should wake up to the fact that they don't want us to return to the "old normal". They don't want mass travel, free association, to return to school, to run our businesses, to eat meat or live out lives without observation or control. There is no return to "normal" after a year of this, vaccines or otherwise. Just stop and look at where we are a year on and where we are heading. Each day this blog features articles with proposals and policy that would have been considered a conspiracy theory or science fiction a year ago. They cards are all on the table and this is being played out as we watch.

We've gone from "a couple of weeks to flatten the curve" to "zero COVID or bust". But it's not about a virus anymore, it's not about cock-ups by government or right or left. They are all doing the same thing globally with deliberate social engineering and creative destruction.

Don't think that it cannot happen here. What makes you think that those in the history books or in countries like China, wartime Germany, USSR, Cambodia, were any weaker of mind or spirit than we are? I've been to North Korea, China, Vietnam (before it was opened to tourism) and the people are the same as you and I, just further down the totalitarian path. Our government are using the same social engineering and propaganda tactics on us.

I'm not some long-term conspiracy theorist: I read the Guardian and loved the BBC until they trotted out those incredible statistics last autumn of 4000 deaths per day. It shouldn't take much to start by asking "how many deaths per year are normal" and to look at the illogicalness all around us to see that there are many, many lies being told. I get it though, I was one of the first to wear a mask in a shop last May and was washing all my groceries, due to fear and the unknown. When nothing happened this summer despite our local beaches being rammed, that woke me up.

Watch how the politicians stumble and stammer as they try to get their lies out. Watch Fauci and co. fiddle with their masks and place them down on the lectern where the previous speaker placed theirs. I go to the same small corner grocery shop and see the same people working there as last spring, even before masks and social distancing. The virus is either terribly deadly, or it is not.

Putting a running COVID death odometer on the TV and in the press 24/7 is nothing but fear-mongering. Reporting 100,000 (not all are) UK COVID deaths over 2 respiratory illness seasons is like broadcasting the total cumulative amount of cancer or automobile deaths over the years. Yes people are dying due to a respiratory illness, and yes that is sad. My close cousin died in a car accident a short drive from home when he was 20 (not his fault) - yet I still drive despite having had other near misses myself over the years. The way we are handling COVID risk is completely uncalibrated towards other life risks.

Finally, not being sceptical about having an experimental gene therapy pushed on the population is also irrational. At least look at what exactly the trials tested for (symptoms and sometimes positive PCR) and how effectiveness (absolute vs. relative risk) is calculated against a placebo (spoiler: not much difference between the two). Then look at how mRNA therapy works, how it is different than traditional vaccines. This is not necessarily bad, but there has definitely not been enough long-term and broad enough testing across populations. The original SARS vaccine trials caused disease in animals and death when challenged with the real virus. Look at what happened with other not-fully-tested vaccines such as H1N1 Pandemrix. More than 1300 recipients (some "encouraged" health workers) got life-affecting narcolepsy - for a virus with very little risk to them. (https://www.bmj.com/content/362/bmj.k3948 - sound familiar?).

In the software world you normally don't deploy new code on a Friday or upgrade your systems until the .1 release. People recommend not buying the first year of a new car model. How can we trust the virus is safe when they do not and cannot yet know? Make your own informed choices, but consider the risk of the unknown against the known risks of COVID injury.

With all this rush and "pick and mix" of various vaccines, doses, and timing who is going to know what is working and what is harming? Is anyone tracking this or is it just jab, jab, jab? Is anyone investigating the correlation of care-home deaths post-vaccine? Our local care homes say they have not changed any protocols.

Don't think that commercial interests don't get tangled up with health bodies and governments. My father was essentially murdered exactly by this type of conspiracy in the HIV/HepC tainted blood scandals of the 80s. Look it up.

No, I don't know what I'm going to do about all this, but I know where our family has drawn the line. It would be easier to make decisions and plans if the whole world wasn't reacting in lockstep. So I will need to wait and see which countries are the most bearable with respect to community and liberty. I'd be happy with just those two things.

Usual disclaimers: I'm not anti-vax, due to my travels I likely have more than most and my kids have their shots I'm not a tin-foil-helmeted conspiracy looney, just a scientist son of a scientist who was taught to question everything and ask "does this make sense".

Thanks to this site and the discussions for keeping me informed and sane.

Katherine
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:29 pm

Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by Katherine »

Completely agree, nonewnormal21. Last March, during the first lockdown here in France (and inspite of feeling that it was more to do with a communist takeover to mask a financial collapse) I gave them the benefit of the doubt. We adhered to the rules (didn't want a big fine) although I drew a line at wearing a mask outside.
Those doubts are all gone. The only case of covid I have come across personally in all this time is my elderly mother who went down with it AFTER her first vaccination in her care home in the UK.
Frankly I'm horrified at how quickly people just fell in line with this. The other day my neighbour asked me if I was going to take the vaccination. When I replied in the negative (I've known the man for nearly thirty years and always been on good terms) I was told I wouldn't be able to go to a restaurant or travel if I didn't take it. He seemed very put out about my attitude even though I'd made no comment on his own decision to have it. Is this what it will come down to, neighbour against neighbour, sister against sister? Take the vaccine (an entirely experimental medical intervention) or be shunned and discrimated against forever? Incidentally I would never have dreamt of asking him if he been vaccinated.
I am not obese, I walk two hours a day every day with my dog, I try to stay as healthy as possible and so far I've managed that. I'm nearly 64yrs old.
I'm just watching how this is all playing out and feeling rather helpless as decisions are made in back rooms that shape my life and those of my children and grandchildren.

Fingal
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:11 pm

Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by Fingal »

nonewnormal21 wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:44 pm People should wake up to the fact that they don't want us to return to the "old normal"......I'm not some long-term conspiracy theorist
Two statements which don't sit very easily together.

Why do you think the UK and multiple other governments would ever want to mess up their own economies in this way? You imply it's because they want to run more oppressive regimes.

That is in itself a massive conspiracy theory - for which there is no evidence, apart from stuff that does indeed belong firmly in conspiracy land (the Illuminati etc, etc).

I find it astonishing if you really have gone from zero to full on conspiracy paranoia in one jump.

Speedstick
Posts: 291
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:27 pm

Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by Speedstick »

Absolutely brilliant posts Katherine and Nonewnormal.
You entirely took the words right out of my mouth.
The public have been had over, hook, line and sinker, orchestrated by the forces of pure evil.

Speedstick
Posts: 291
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:27 pm

Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by Speedstick »

With respect Fingal , you have missed the whole point.
This evil is being orchestrated by forces and individuals far more powerful than individual national governments.
These large multinational conglomerates have a GDP value, and reaching influence far beyond that of national governments.
Did Facebook not have enough power to influence the outcome of both the Brexit Referendum and the 2016 US presidential election.
I would very much like to refer you to a BBC podcast produced by NPR as part of the TED radio hour entitled Digital Manipulation, it left me spine chilled, and this was on BBC radio, so l am sure, as you are clearly pro-government, you will not view this as fake news.

thinksaboutit
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:38 am

Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by thinksaboutit »

Fingal wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:55 am
nonewnormal21 wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:44 pm People should wake up to the fact that they don't want us to return to the "old normal"......I'm not some long-term conspiracy theorist
Two statements which don't sit very easily together.

Why do you think the UK and multiple other governments would ever want to mess up their own economies in this way? You imply it's because they want to run more oppressive regimes.

That is in itself a massive conspiracy theory - for which there is no evidence, apart from stuff that does indeed belong firmly in conspiracy land (the Illuminati etc, etc).

I find it astonishing if you really have gone from zero to full on conspiracy paranoia in one jump.
Some good observations on such mad views.
Unfortunately these conspiracy nuts never consider these questions.. they become blind.

Big questions on any conspiracy theory :
How difficult it would be to pull off?
How many people would need to be involved?
What would be the motive?

jmc
Posts: 286
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:01 am

Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by jmc »

Fingal wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:55 am
nonewnormal21 wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:44 pm People should wake up to the fact that they don't want us to return to the "old normal"......I'm not some long-term conspiracy theorist
Two statements which don't sit very easily together.

Why do you think the UK and multiple other governments would ever want to mess up their own economies in this way? You imply it's because they want to run more oppressive regimes.

That is in itself a massive conspiracy theory - for which there is no evidence, apart from stuff that does indeed belong firmly in conspiracy land (the Illuminati etc, etc).

I find it astonishing if you really have gone from zero to full on conspiracy paranoia in one jump.
The actual conspiracy is the cover-up to hide the catastrophic incompetence of most governments response to the initial outbreak in January / March 2020 time-frame. Over 90% of the long term damage was done by that first decision. Every twist and turn of government policy since has been an attempt to avoid the political consequence of those decisions in March 2020. There is no public health science basis for any of them. But very good political reasons.

What do you think the political consequences would be from the 70% plus who have acquiesced so far to the totalitarians public health policies if the government sudden came clean a said - Sorry guys, those health risk numbers we had back in March 2020 turned out to be completely wrong (for purely political reasons). The numbers we used to shut down the country. And by the way as there was no treatments or vaccines available at the time so the actual science for the last 100 years was that nothing we could do would change the final outcome. Ever.

Oh yeah, we knew from the last time (in 2003) that hospitals and health care facilities were the main source of initial spread and that only old people really died in any number. So not like the Spanish Flu in any way.

We also knew that lockdowns etc made absolutely no difference to actual spread of airborne respiratory infections (140 years of science there) and the only face-masks that made the slightest difference (but not much) were N95/N99's but we have only a few of those so no point the general population using them. As for social distancing, that extra 50cm's over normal inter-personal distance makes no difference what so ever.

But in the media driven frenzy and local political infighting in March / April 2020 third rate politicians in country after country had to look like there were "DOING SOMETHING" - so they did something. Which destroyed the local economy, tore up basic human rights and directly lead to the deaths of many tens of thousands of old people.

Thats the conspiracy. Thats the coverup. The conspiracy by the governments in a whole bunch of countries to defer any way they can the day of reckoning for their utterly criminal behavior.

To give you a flavor of just what the governments knew and when it knew it here is an article in a medical news publication discussing the most likely outcomes of for the SARs CoV 2 pandemic based on the relevant science. The only two options (from the science) were A) SARs CoV 2 becomes just a general background human-corona virus infection like the other four; or B) SARs CoV 2 gets rolled into the normal season "flu" season mix of respiratory viruses. Thats it.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two ... contained/

And the date of this article, February 4'th, 2020. A full month before the media driven lockdown hysteria started in earnest.

You can be 100% certain that what was discussed in the above article and other like it was made know to the senior politicians and political appointees in the period leading up to the first wave of lockdowns. All lockdowns were politically motivated, there was zero actual science behind them.

The cover up is the conspiracy. Thats about it.

The fact that the eco-facists/green armageddonist cultist/and other assorted neo-luddites are trying to use the current crises as an excuse to shutdown modern industrial society and leave us all in poverty and hunger is just pure political opportunism, nothing else. But this does not distract from just how potentially dangerous those very small minority actually are in the longer term. Those people would just love the lockdown to continue for the foreseeable future. For their own political ends.

But thats just the usual mix of political jockeying for power that happens in every generation. So a "conspiracy" of sorts. But not the actual conspiracy at the moment. Which is the cover-up.

fon
Posts: 713
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:47 pm

Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by fon »

Fingal wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:55 am Why do you think the UK and multiple other governments would ever want to mess up their own economies in this way? You imply it's because they want to run more oppressive regimes.That is in itself a massive conspiracy theory - for which there is no evidence, apart from stuff that does indeed belong firmly in conspiracy land (the Illuminati etc, etc).I find it astonishing if you really have gone from zero to full on conspiracy paranoia in one jump.
You are barking up the wrong tree friend, but you are half right. I believe a great convulsion always looks like a great conspiracy when you are in the midst of it, only when it's over can the real patterns be clearly observed.

Think in terms of the great global convulsions, because we are in one. Periodically, mankind is tossed into a great wash and spin cycle, during it, relationships and patterns formed before, like socks, left and right, and flung apart and need to be rematched later. This happens in great convulsions, in the first world war and the Spanish flu, the Ottoman Empire and Europe was torn apart and redistributed amongst the victors, a new world order was established. It is wrong to imagine that the first world war and the Spanish flu were arranged in order to destroy the Central powers, but had it not done so, Turkey and Germany might today be the richest and most powerful countries in the world, controlling the world's oil supply. It is true to say that circumstances were exploited, by us, Triple Entente.

In the second world war, Europe was again torn apart and redistributed amongst the victors, another new world order was established, a new world order that strived to impose Anglo-saxon capitalism and liberal democracy across the world, we tried in the cold war to rebuild the whole world like England and America, and we nearly did so, by exploiting circumstances. It is silly to imagine that the second world war was arranged so we could mould the world into something more amenable to us. But we did not let the crisis go to waste.

As with the other great global convulsions of the last century, this current one was imposed on us. The government does not want to mess up its own economy the virus did that, but it will not let a good crisis go to waste. The government will try to exploit the circumstances so that when the great wash and spin cycle ends, and everything has been flung apart it will be able match it up in a way that is amenable to the present goals. They are calling it "Build Back Better", contrast that with Labour's winning slogan in 1945 'Winning the Peace', which ushered in the NHS and the welfare state.

And that's where we are, only this time, the goal is framed, like the welfare state in 1945 as a "stakeholder economy"; a more "resilient, equitable, and sustainable" economy and culture, based on environmental, social, and governance metrics which would incorporate more green public infrastructure projects. So that's all there is to the great reset. That's all she wrote.

fon
Posts: 713
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:47 pm

Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by fon »

jmc wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:09 am
The actual conspiracy is the cover-up to hide the catastrophic incompetence of most governments' response to the initial outbreak in January / March 2020 time-frame.
This response is a bit better than your normal blast of bluff and bluster. Like a blind pig who sometimes finds a truffle, you have stumbled into the truth, jmc. And you managed not to mention the chi-squared test!

Yes, it was the initial blind panic that threw them completely off course in the first place. The early ift estimates freaked them out. And you're right that the twists and turns have been due to the lies used to conceal their error and panic.
That's the conspiracy. That's the coverup. The conspiracy by the governments in a whole bunch of countries to defer any way they can the day of reckoning for their utterly criminal behavior.
Yes, once you start with the lie, you must keep going, following the logic even once it crosses into the absurd.
The fact that the eco-facists/green armageddonist cultist/and other assorted neo-luddites are trying to use the current crises as an excuse to shutdown modern industrial society and leave us all in poverty and hunger is just pure political opportunism, nothing else.
It is opportunism, but you stepped over the rant line there, the great reset is perhaps not as sinister as you suggest, and may be necessary, and certainly not as harmful as you suggest. We just need to be much more sensible and cautious about it.

Fingal
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:11 pm

Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by Fingal »

jmc wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:09 am The conspiracy by the governments in a whole bunch of countries to defer any way they can the day of reckoning for their utterly criminal behavior....

All lockdowns were politically motivated, there was zero actual science behind them.....

The cover up is the conspiracy. Thats about it.
There's a huge variety of responses by different governments. But to generalise horribly, some already-autocratic governments (eg China) used authoritarian methods to control the virus. It worked.

Other governments with a liberal reputation (eg NZ) also used strong methods such as lockdown, but not as strong as China. It worked.

A variety of other liberal governments in Europe tried the full gamut of responses from lockdown to 'herd immunity'. All of them failed to some degree.

And finally, you have a category of governments which although nominally democratic, were dominated by a populist figure (eg Bolsinaro and Trump). They went for a laissez faire response. It failed - badly.

It seems to me these responses were predictable. Governments behaved largely in accordance with their previous leadership style.

The governments which might normally be accused of eroding democratic values (Bolsinaro/Trump) took the exact opposite course from what you suggest - ie they didn't go for lockdown or any other state control measure.

I don't see any pattern of opportunism by the various liberal democracies. No suggestion they were just waiting for a chance to grab power. Their response has been similar to wartime expediency. WW2 was the height of state control in the UK and the pandemic has provoked partial wartime conditions.

So many countries have resorted to lockdown. To explain this you need a coordinated international conspiracy and then you're back in Illuminati land.

Absolutely no government wanted lockdown. But many of them resorted to it because they believed they had no choice. OK, so you disagree with the statistics. But they believe them and frankly, so do most people. It's not a bizarre attitude, it's a majority opinion - whether it's right or wrong.

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