How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

thinksaboutit
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:38 am

Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by thinksaboutit »

Fingal wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:42 am
jmc wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:16 pm You have an interesting definition of "worked". Mostly based on what you seem to have read in the MSM by the look of it.
Your use of the term 'MSM' is a red flag for Conspiracy Land.

There are 1000s of professional media outlets round the world. None are perfect, and many of them don't even try to be objective. But at least you can see where they're coming from, they have professional training and networks, and - crucially - they are subject to laws of libel etc.

Whereas 'stuff you read on the internet' is not.

There are a few non-professional media outlets that contribute plenty - notably Bellingcat. Wikileaks has also done a job although their model is too easy to exploit. And the spontaneous reports by large numbers of ordinary people in social media can be useful.

But overall, a sweeping rejection of 'MSM' is almost bound to end up in Conspiracy Land.
Rejecting inconvenient sources of information is a key tool of the conspiracy enthusiast.
They believe all governments, all scientists (except Dr Loon etc on social Media) , all professional media (MSM) are in the conspiracy, without thinking how hard that would be to achieve.

Becoming a "believer" tends to stop people being objective.

Speedstick
Posts: 291
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:27 pm

Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by Speedstick »

Correct Fingal l also don't believe there was a planned conspiracy, however l do believe there was a situation generated whereby evil disaster capitalists where able to make hay while the sun shines, PPE, masks, social distancing signage etc.
What we are going to see as a consequence of that is now total UK economic collapse to the huge disadvantage of every child in this nation who have already suffered quite enough from this nonsense.
Science has tried to defy mother nature and as a result we are all going to get badly burned by the imminent implosion!!!!

doobedoobedo
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:34 pm

Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by doobedoobedo »

Fingal wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:34 am
Speedstick wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:22 pm Therefore what you appear to be saying Fingal is that it is acceptable to destroy ever child in the country's future as long as it was just incompetence and not deliberate malevolence!
No, my reply is about the false notion of a conspiracy.

The UK government, like most others, resorted to lockdown because they felt they had no choice. You may disagree with their analysis - that's fine. But there is zero reason to suspect that they did it out of some ludicrous secret plot to take over the world.
You're claiming secret conspiracy theories where there are none.

Why is there no secret conspiracy?

Because it's no secret https://www.weforum.org/great-reset/

Any politician using the term 'Build Back Better' is at least influenced by them https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/07/ ... heres-how/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkcaeaD45MY

jmc
Posts: 286
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:01 am

Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by jmc »

Fingal wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:42 am
jmc wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:16 pm You have an interesting definition of "worked". Mostly based on what you seem to have read in the MSM by the look of it.
Your use of the term 'MSM' is a red flag for Conspiracy Land.

There are 1000s of professional media outlets round the world. None are perfect, and many of them don't even try to be objective. But at least you can see where they're coming from, they have professional training and networks, and - crucially - they are subject to laws of libel etc.

Whereas 'stuff you read on the internet' is not.

There are a few non-professional media outlets that contribute plenty - notably Bellingcat. Wikileaks has also done a job although their model is too easy to exploit. And the spontaneous reports by large numbers of ordinary people in social media can be useful.

But overall, a sweeping rejection of 'MSM' is almost bound to end up in Conspiracy Land.
You may have missed one of my other posts where I mentioned in passing that I have a very good idea exactly how the media business works and has worked for many decades. Over the decades I have know quite a few people who worked in the business, both in the UK and the US, both for newsprint media and TV news and current affairs, and even family members were by-lined in national newspapers for years. I dont know how many times over the years you have turned on the telly or opened a newspaper or magazine and said, there's what's his name. Either someone you knew or someone who works with someone you know. The most recent US TV example was on CNN. In the UK it was on Channel 4. Its actually a fairly small world. Media-land.

So I know exactly how the sausage is made. It aint pretty. Which is why when I talk to journalists and researchers I am very very careful to make sure from the get go that it is clearly understood to be completely off the record. And if any recording is done I will be doing it too. I know the game. The latest generation of J-School drone are pretty useless reporters and very slow on the uptake but national network TV researchers can still be very well informed and usually ask some pretty intelligent questions.

By keeping to these rules over the years and making sure I never agreed to any on camera time I have kept my total on-air TV time to exactly less than 1 second. About ten years ago. As a cutaway shot while a friend was interviewed for a holiday filler piece segment on US (large metro market) local TV news.

So I know of what I speak. You should hear just how utterly cynical the people in the media business are when the start talking shop. Although I do miss the old days of a few decades ago when The Street of Shame was exactly that. Some wonderful (boozy) reprobates back then. With not an idealist (or ideological) bone in their body. And as a result wrote clear, concise few hundred word stories which were often quite informative. Not the mostly wet wokish b*llocks that passes for journalism nowadays where they dont even bother with any of the 6 W's.

I am very aware of what stories are being carried by the MSM in a whole bunch of countries. And what media outlets are playing which angles at any given time. Not just anglophone countries either. Plus I know how to the get the newswires stories and the raw new feed footage that is used in news broadcasts. Watching the 2 or 3 min raw feed is always a lot more informative that watching the 15 sec edit drop in used in the news bulletin. If only to tell you what the news editors angle is.

I use the MSM term very deliberately. Because it is a very accurate term. More so in the US than in the UK. There is an MSM accepted narrative for every storyline and that is what the MSM tells in most countries. Some more than others. The US being the most extreme example, followed by Germany, UK, Italy with France, oddly enough, being fairly media diverse the last few years. The Gilet Jaunes being the real moment the national media opened up. I've seen some very creative , innovative and informative stories in French media outlets the last few years.

So hope for the business yet.

Fingal
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:11 pm

Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by Fingal »

Speedstick wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:08 pm Correct Fingal l also don't believe there was a planned conspiracy, however l do believe there was a situation generated whereby evil disaster capitalists where able to make hay while the sun shines
One bunch of 'capitalists' benefited but a very much larger group lost out.

Fingal
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:11 pm

Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by Fingal »

doobedoobedo wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:59 pm Why is there no secret conspiracy?

Because it's no secret https://www.weforum.org/great-reset/
Davos is a favourite target for conspiracy theorists.

fon
Posts: 713
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:47 pm

Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by fon »

Fingal wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:48 pm
doobedoobedo wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:59 pm Why is there no secret conspiracy?

Because it's no secret https://www.weforum.org/great-reset/
Davos is a favourite target for conspiracy theorists.
Yes, there is a subset within the sceptics who have settled on the idea that our government is waging a battle on its own citizens, they think the government is a puppet controlled by evil criminal masterminds with headquarters in Davos. They are quite serious in this belief. I call them the Ernst Stavro Blofeld brigade. They are quite far out there, almost in Qanon land. They usually team up with our local anti-vaxxers, to derail rational discussion. It seems that, in this digital age, crackpot ideas flourish, esp. in the midst of a global convulsion.

Behind it is the ancient human instinct to search for meaning in events even when there is none. The human mind fills the space with rubbish. If a set of unusual events occur by coincidence, some people will use google to search out what's going on. And some cranks on the Internet, such as Klaus Schwab, or Dr. Reiner Fuellmich will have put out something that matches the search criteria in a fuzzy sort of way. The results are pounced on as proof that Bill Gates, Klaus Schwab, Goerge Soros and Tony Blair are conspiring to end the world as we know it, in order to Build Back Better, by poisoning us all with vaccines. On the Internet these rumours get halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. It's always been like this but now it travels at the speed of light.

So the bottom line is that sceptics think lockdowns do more harm than good, much of the harm is unnoticed since it occurs at home alone to people shut off from their normal activities. We believe untold damage is occurring to the fabric of our world, which we will still be struggling to repair long after the epidemic has subside. I believe that, I do not believe the Ernst Stavro Blofeld brigade or the anti-vaxxers. I believe the Ernst Stavro Blofeld brigade and the anti-vaxxers are counter productive and we get called covid19 deniers due to that crowd. There is a good argument to be mad against lockdowns, but nobody is hearing it, they just hear the covid deniers. It's a real nuisance.

doobedoobedo
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:34 pm

Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by doobedoobedo »

Fingal wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:48 pm
doobedoobedo wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:59 pm Why is there no secret conspiracy?

Because it's no secret https://www.weforum.org/great-reset/
Davos is a favourite target for conspiracy theorists.
This is who we are: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/01/ ... d-to-know/

This is what we're doing: https://www.weforum.org/great-reset/

Fingal and Fon: No you're not, that's a conspiracy theory!

Speedstick
Posts: 291
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:27 pm

Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by Speedstick »

Your latest post was actually very good and valid Fon however have you never heard of the Peterloo Massacre, Sunday Bloody Sunday, or the disgusting cover up following the Aberfan disaster. You talk as if government's always act with integrity and in the best interests of the populace. I am afraid sadly they do not! Whether you call that is a conspiracy, a cover up, dishonesty or just disingenuous is l would accept is subjective depending on your viewpoint. Forty percent of children in Leicester already live in poverty my primary concern is l would like to fight to stop this figure getting any worse than it is already, l feel the consequences of lockdown will sadly skyrocket that figure!!
We owe it to our children to fight for their future, l hope that you agree with me Fon.

fon
Posts: 713
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:47 pm

Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by fon »

Speedstick wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:36 pm Your latest post was actually very good and valid Fon however have you never heard of the Peterloo Massacre, Sunday Bloody Sunday, or the disgusting cover up following the Aberfan disaster.
There are ways we can eject a government that does Peterloos, Bloody Sundays or disaster cover ups, and such things. All of those events caused great public revolution and laws were altered to restrain the power of the state. I am very alarmed by the erosion of or liberties allowed by the Coronavirus Act 2020 and I strongly expect it to be reprieved in due course, when the emergency is over, that is a practical matter that we can protest about, and expect public support in due course, as long as we are not regarded as cranks by the public.
Forty percent of children in Leicester already live in poverty my primary concern is l would like to fight to stop this figure getting any worse than it is already, l feel the consequences of lockdown will sadly skyrocket that figure!!
We owe it to our children to fight for their future, l hope that you agree with me Fon.
Of course but the nonsense that an Ernst Stavro Blofeld is responsible for that gets us nowhere.The reason kids in Leicester are poor is because it is a typical English medium sized city. It has no tourist industry to speak of, and it's principle industry , I believe , is garment manufacture,which is renowned for low wages.I understand there is some Engineering business in the city, which is hopeful. I know of no magic bullet to help Leicester, similarly for Liverpool or Birkenhead, Blackpool or Blackburn. It tough out there for blue collar cities. I hope, post-brexit, that our government can attract inward investment using tax reliefs. But I can't pick the winners. In a Build Back Better economy, perhaps we should start in Leicester, Liverpool , Birkenhead, Blackpool and Blackburn - if that is the point of the Great Reset/4th industrial revolution, I'm all for it. I wish you luck over in leicester, I hope to get back there some day.

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