How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

RichardTechnik
Posts: 125
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Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by RichardTechnik »

jmc wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:48 pm
Charles Barnwell wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:06 pm
jmc wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:10 pm I've seen whiny doctors / nurses like her before.
This is a doctor who is trying to save somebody's life. Referring to him as whiny does not help. This patient has covid and the family want to take him home to give him vitamin C and D and something else a lawyer has recommended. This person will die if not treated correctly. How can you show such lack of humanity.
You must have missed the rest of my post. I am very familiar with doctors. Of all types. Going back many decades. Which is why I am so deeply dismissive of her.

Lack of humanity? I have met some very humane doctors but on the whole I have found them to be a rather callous profession. This opinion is based on a very large sample in about half a dozen countries over five decades. Especially if you dare question the medical deity status of quite a few of them. Just like lawyer some are useful but most are useless. So by this doctor whining in the public manner she did makes me put her in the useless category. I've dealt with her type before. Utterly useless when it comes to ensuring a positive health outcome unless it is something very common or not out of the ordinary.

I have heard exactly this - you must do what you are told because I said so - from doctors which on further investigation was total BS. I have dealt with enough doctors to automatically distrust immediately any doctor who takes the approach of this particular doctor. I have known too many people with a skeptical approach to doctors who are still alive, and too many people who trusted doctors far too much who are either dead or almost died because of their misplaced trust.

As for the patent in question, are you familial with the therapeutic clinical treatments for serious viral pneumonia? There really are none. Just palliative. Basically they give them antibiotics to try prevent them getting a hospital acquired infection. That about it. All the other pharmaceutical treatments at this time are around placebo level efficacy. Although some can reduce severity of the symptoms, thats about it. That's what the current clinical treatment handbooks say.

And the reason why they try to avoid putting patients on mechanical ventilators is because they can do so much long term damage. Part of the reason why the survival rate for ARDs is so low, about 50%, is not just the damage done to the body through chronic oxygen deprivation but the damage done by the mechanical ventilation. So going home, with supplemental oxygen to hand and an oximeter , and taking lots of vitamins or whatever has in all likelihood around the same probability of a positive final health outcome result as staying in a hospital ward. For a start the probability of a Hospital Acquired infection would be greatly reduced. Which at times can reach over 20% plus.

You might put great store in that video but I dont. Because I have dealt with doctors in the past who sounded exactly like her. Humanity, or lack of it, has nothing to do with it. Just bitter experience.
jmc Thanks for this useful information. I'd concur with your opinion.

Speedstick
Posts: 291
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:27 pm

Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by Speedstick »

Yes l totally agree with you Richard.
NHS doctors are just subject to the same current group think, the whole populace is.
Whilst they may a may not be good people or may or may not be good doctors, the fact remains, they have to treat every case in line with the protocols in place for that given ailment/disease, and that includes Covid.
So they, as we all are, are subjected the to utter hysteria around this issue.
At the end of the day Covid is just the psychology of group think gone absolutely and totally insane to the detriment of humanity itself.
Ask yourself why anybody with legitimate questions against lockdown, masks etc. are so harshly rebuked? To me this is just extremely reminiscent of the way those with non party views were treated in Nazi Germany in the late 1930's.

jmc
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Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by jmc »

thinksaboutit wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:50 pm Back to the title of the topic.

How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Is seems the answer is :

as long as the website exists.
Which misinformation exactly?

All I see is a lot of very informed discussion with a lot of references to primary sources. And a lot of people rightly worried by the deluge of outright propaganda on the subject that has reached Soviet / RRG (Reichs-Rundfunk-Gesellschaft) levels of shrillness which tries to bludgeon everyone into Right-Think behavior and thoughts.

Old enough to have listened to Radio Moscow back in the 1970's? I am. What the BBC and its ilk have been broadcasting in the last year is little different from the propaganda of a totalitarian state. If you think otherwise than the official position you are an enemy of the people.

Why do I get the strong sense that you might be just the sort of person who in the DDR of old used to notify the relevant authorities about people with social deviant opinions , the wreckers and disrupters, who were not conforming to the greater good of the people. One of the good old I.M's. (Informeller Mitarbeiter) perhaps

You may not remember those times but I do. I remember exactly what places like the DDR were like. Pre 1989. Which is why I made the connection. What has happened in the last year is eerily familiar.

RichardTechnik
Posts: 125
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Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by RichardTechnik »

jmc wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:53 pm
thinksaboutit wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:50 pm Back to the title of the topic.

How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Is seems the answer is :

as long as the website exists.
Which misinformation exactly?

All I see is a lot of very informed discussion with a lot of references to primary sources. And a lot of people rightly worried by the deluge of outright propaganda on the subject that has reached Soviet / RRG (Reichs-Rundfunk-Gesellschaft) levels of shrillness which tries to bludgeon everyone into Right-Think behavior and thoughts.

Old enough to have listened to Radio Moscow back in the 1970's? I am. What the BBC and its ilk have been broadcasting in the last year is little different from the propaganda of a totalitarian state. If you think otherwise than the official position you are an enemy of the people.

Why do I get the strong sense that you might be just the sort of person who in the DDR of old used to notify the relevant authorities about people with social deviant opinions , the wreckers and disrupters, who were not conforming to the greater good of the people. One of the good old I.M's. (Informeller Mitarbeiter) perhaps

You may not remember those times but I do. I remember exactly what places like the DDR were like. Pre 1989. Which is why I made the connection. What has happened in the last year is eerily familiar.
Spot on jmc. I have thought exactly the same thoughts about the whole situtaion as well as certain of the posters here. I visited the Soviet Union in their 50th year, able to speak some Russian having done an O-level a couple of months earlier, read Pravda etc. They had some compensation having a more accessible health service and social and cultural experiences which we do not enjoy here now. And the humour ridiculing the state apparatchiks soon came out over a meal with a few drinks. Same for Iran, and the former Baltic States and E Germany end 90s.

Sadly most of the people here are either trying to prove how zealous they can in response to the propaganda be or scared witless and hiding.

Occamsrazor
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Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by Occamsrazor »

There isn't any "misinformation". This is a forum where, ATL, various people with various qualifications - or not - discuss issues, mostly in an open and sensible way. BTL, we are all simply a bunch of internet randoms, as elsewhere, and hopefully most people have enough brain to take a view on what they read, just as they can take a view when reading any internet forum.
No one I have seen is claiming to be the world's leading epidemiologist with an added postgrad in Economics and Social Sciences. They are simply people with views, stating them as they are (still) allowed to do in a country with some element of free speech.
I for example, as a lawyer, have deep concerns about the overweening legislative changes being imposed in the name of "safety". In this I am in the very illustrious company of Lord Sumption and in no way spreading or accepting "misinformation". Other people may say "just one life", as they're entitled to do, but that to me is patent nonsense. As a person usually to be found on what would be termed the "progressive left", I have deep concerns about the effects of current restrictions on poverty, education, equality and indeed the environment (in the race to the bottom that most governments will feel duty-bound to undertake when the full financial implications of their ridiculous policies come home to roost) Some may disagree with me that these things are important, but by giving my views on their importance online I am not misinforming anyone of anything. I happen to be pro-vaccine, and therefore whilst I read what sceptics of a different persuasion say about it because I am interested, I do not see their posts as dealing in "misinformation": I disagree as I am entitled to do on the basis of what I believe to be true, but they can do what they like with their own bodies; and I will do what I like with mine.
I don't like being combative online but I really wonder if this sort of post is some way of testing the water to see if it can start some kind of anti-Sceptic movement. The concerns just don't ring true to me.

thinksaboutit
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Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by thinksaboutit »

Occamsrazor wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:02 pm There isn't any "misinformation".
This is an justifiable statement!

There only needs to be one single item of incorrect information on the web site to disprove your statement.

I have certainly such items. Have you searched the whole site to check? How would you know.

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MikeAustin
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Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by MikeAustin »

thinksaboutit wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:59 pm
Occamsrazor wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:02 pm There isn't any "misinformation".
There only needs to be one single item of incorrect information on the web site to disprove your statement.
Yet again, I find myself thanking you for more than one of such items.

RichardTechnik
Posts: 125
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Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by RichardTechnik »

thinksaboutit wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:59 pm
Occamsrazor wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:02 pm There isn't any "misinformation".
This is an justifiable statement!

There only needs to be one single item of incorrect information on the web site to disprove your statement.

I have certainly such items. Have you searched the whole site to check? How would you know.
So what ? I don't think you meant to say " This is an justifiable statement!"

Perhaps you'd like to reveal the item(s) of incorrect information you allege you 'have' and why you, not some so called 'fact check site' , believe the item to be incorrect.

And while you are at it perhaps you might check the BBC website and a quite a few .gov.uk sites for item(s) of incorrect information. Government guidance on their 'rules' unsupported by law ?

Speedstick
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Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:27 pm

Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by Speedstick »

Are you attempting to claim there has not been one piece of misinformation from the government/SAGE/PHE side then Thinksaboutit?
Then l will give you one, just one but I'm certain there are probably thousands.
The current ubiquitous advert on Classic FM, states 1 in 3 people (i.e. asymptomatic cases) are spreading Covid without knowing it.
That is a blatant lie, as confirmed by the WHO, l have reported this as to the ASA, but of course have had no reply.
Do me one favour tonight Thinksaboutit, look into your own eyes, and know you are backing and supporting pure unadulterated EVIL.

jmc
Posts: 286
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Re: How long can this website carry on with misinformation?

Post by jmc »

thinksaboutit wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:59 pm
Occamsrazor wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:02 pm There isn't any "misinformation".
This is an justifiable statement!

There only needs to be one single item of incorrect information on the web site to disprove your statement.

I have certainly such items. Have you searched the whole site to check? How would you know.
Do you realize just what a compete and total fool the above makes you sound.

Are you 14 years old?

Thats exactly the same kind of logic my kids came out with when they were having a particular snotty and stupid teenage snit. Which they were immediately called on and sent to their room until they starting acting in an even half way intelligent manner.

Do you actually have any intelligent comments to make? A considered question perhaps? Or just more inanities like the above. Which sound remarkably like the ruminations of a very slow off the mark Benny. With a very bad hangover.

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