Fon, I've quoted your whole post since you have taken mine out of context. I made simple comment in afirmation of Truthclone's amusing techique; that of playing at their own game, those lockdown enthusiasts who won't, or can't debate its merits. Thats all, nothing more complex intended.fon wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:13 pmI'll just make a few independent observations, Richard; a mirror approach is not appropriate since lockdowns and vaccinations are completely orthogonal approaches to suppressing a virus. Either, both or neither can be tried, with varied results. There will be many lockdown zealots who renounce vaccination and vice versa in both directions.
Some data from Israel suggests vaccines are 94% effective at stopping infections. Few here would vouch for Lockdowns, but there are plenty of people elsewhere who do think lockdowns work, although it would be hard to quantify that in the same way vaccines can be quantified.
Support and antagonism for lockdowns and vaccination can also be orthogonal, one is able to support or renounce both independently. My personal view is that vaccination is safe and effective and that lockdowns do more harm than good. My views may be represented in some of my posts ; if you are an anti-vaxxer, you'll just have to suck that up, I'm afraid, but I wish you well whatever. I see vaccination as a way to reach herd immunity, making it politically possible to drop lockdown; I hope we have almost reached that point, as does the government.
I'll finish with one remark. We will soon be getting data on covid deaths of those vaccinated, versus those not vaccinated. Since we are reaching the end of the virus season, there are reasonable grounds to hope that the number of covid deaths of those vaccinated will be a very small cohort indeed compared to the total. If this is the case, it greatly diminishes the SAGE/government case for lockdown, since vaccination, not lockdown will be seen to be the primary effective measure.
You seem have suggested I might be an 'anti-vaxxer'; a broad emotive slur which various ignorants and political manipulators use to categorise people who range from wholehearted acceptance through concern of a rapildy deployed novel vaccine to those who assign other malevolent motives to vaccine use or promotion.
As an engineer and scientist I quantify the risks and cost of applying or not any protective measure against the risk of harm from the threat which the measure is represented to protect against. The answer is an optimum. I have done that for most of my personal and professional life and include medical interventions in that. Those who trot out emotive safety mantras about 'all lives are sacred' or 'safety is paramount' are ignorant or dishonest.
My calculation as to whether I might take any of these vaccines is, as I have stated earlier in this thread, my own and I have done this in the past. The calculation is no-one elses and I believe everyone should be informed to do the same. Policy is dependent of the efficacy of the vaccine ( variously played down by those who want lockdown apparently forever and inflated by those who seek maximum uptake) and the age related risks ( again propagandised by vested interests ). This should lead to an optimum calculation by age,comorbidity and contra-indication as to the cohort that will benefit from vaccination. Those who clamour for whole population vaccination are disingenous. The people I reserve my contempt for are those who deliberately and knowingly suppress and pervert the facts for whatever reason and I include most of SAGE , SPI-B and the MSM and especially the BBC who are handsomely bribed with taxpayers money to do so. Contemptible are those who use or advocate coercion as policy tool and they will reap the rewards of this in due course.
Lockdown is treated in the same way. Isolation is a reasonable precaution for 2-3 weeks in a data vacuum re IFR or transmissibility for a new disease. Instead it has been hijacked by a range of interests and its purpose is no longer about either saving the NHS nor lives. This is becoming increasingly obvious and was a long time ago to more and more people who are capable of independent thought. It is absolutely clear that the cost benefit of lockdowns if they have been calculated are ignored by those who have arrogated power to themselves and it is clear that zero covid is a fantasy.
Whether or not I have contracted and recovered from covid is irrelevant; my age puts me in the vulnerable group but none of the interventions are being done in my name an I speak for many I know who feel likewise.
I'm sorry if my view contradicts yours in any way.