Vaccination

thinksaboutit
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:38 am

Re: Vaccination

Post by thinksaboutit »

jmc wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:28 pm
thinksaboutit wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:54 am Would people who reject the option of preventative vaccines still wish the option of hospital treatment if they subsequently contract serious Covid?
Well having just done the back of the envelope calculations for the mortality risk from SARs CoV 2 for me personally as of today the *possible* risk of dying in the next year from a SARs CoV 2 viral pneumonia is about half of the *actual* risk of adverse reaction death from getting the vaccine shot. So that's trading a possible risk for an actual risk.

Plus these current vaccines look like they are going to have to be annual shots, like the flu shot. Whereas an actual infection would give me pretty good immunity for 5 to 8 years. Thats how human corona-viruse infections work. I would sign up for a SARs CoV 2 shot before I'd sign up for any of the current vaccines. Given the current actual medical risk profiles of both shots.

So I'd gladly sign off on such a declaration. Especially as actual SARs CoV 2 infections looks remarkably like a Hospital Acquired Pneumonia at the moment. I will be staying well away from Hospitals / Heath Care facilities as much as possible until this new human corona-virus reaches close to the general population infection equilibrium point.
Interesting conclusion!

What are you assuming for vaccine adverse reaction death rate?

Where is the information to support your assumption 5 to 8 year immunity from natural infection with SARSCov2?

thinksaboutit
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:38 am

Re: Vaccination

Post by thinksaboutit »

Splatt wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:47 pm
thinksaboutit wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:54 am Would people who reject the option of preventative vaccines still wish the option of hospital treatment if they subsequently contract serious Covid?
Firstly the vaccines aren't preventative.
Secondly the vaccines can produce side effects. Most people get sick for 2-3 days after a dose.
For most people, if they catch covid, they'll be sick for 2-3 days.

You seem to forget that the individual PAYS for the NHS. Therefore, they should be treated. Its a service they literally pay for.

Should people avoid Rugby because they might injure themselves and need hospital? There's a preventative solution there too -don't play.
Maybe we should stop mountain walkers as well - they can end up in hospital and it can be prevented.

Do you also advocate mandatory flu jabs for all as well then?
If vaccines aren't preventative, what are they?

Are you saying more than 50% of people get sick from the vaccine?

Splatt
Posts: 1090
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:46 am

Re: Vaccination

Post by Splatt »

thinksaboutit wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:29 pm If vaccines aren't preventative, what are they?
They can reduce the odds (not prevent) of severe disease.
Are you saying more than 50% of people get sick from the vaccine?
Some cohorts in the Oxford study did. Just not severely sick.

Given the CDC/MHRA filings of adverse reactions and using the Oxford risk calculator, for some demographics, they're at MORE risk of an adverse reaction to a vaccine than they are from catching and being seriously ill with SARs2.
... and even if they do get the vaccine, on top of that risk is the chance the vaccine is ineffective anyway.

So are you seriously suggesting these people should do something that put themselves at a HIGHER risk just to satisfy other people?

Splatt
Posts: 1090
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:46 am

Re: Vaccination

Post by Splatt »

thinksaboutit wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:29 pm Are you saying more than 50% of people get sick from the vaccine?
If you mean side effects, yes:-

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/covid-va ... er-effects for Pfizer.

Oxford data suggests more.

Roughly half have 1 or more symptoms including fever, fatigue or aches by the time they've had the 2nd dose.

So why put yourself through that when for some demographics, those are as bad or worse than actually having covid?

Speedstick
Posts: 291
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:27 pm

Re: Vaccination

Post by Speedstick »

This is a very interesting question you pose Thinksaboutit.
Given the option l personally would be more than happy to accept no NHS treatment for Covid if it assured me l could avoid the vaccine.
In fact l would be over the moon with that option!!!!

doobedoobedo
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:34 pm

Re: Vaccination

Post by doobedoobedo »

Speedstick wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:19 pm This is a very interesting question you pose Thinksaboutit.
Given the option l personally would be more than happy to accept no NHS treatment for Covid if it assured me l could avoid the vaccine.
In fact l would be over the moon with that option!!!!
I'd go further.

If the only way to 'save' the NHS is to lock up the entire nation indefinitely, then I wouldn't consider it fit for purpose. It's time we had a different solution.

Splatt
Posts: 1090
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:46 am

Re: Vaccination

Post by Splatt »

doobedoobedo wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:28 pm
If the only way to 'save' the NHS is to lock up the entire nation indefinitely, then I wouldn't consider it fit for purpose. It's time we had a different solution.
It demonstrates every winter its not fit for purpose.
But its the sacred-cow that must not be criticised.
Therefore, it'll never improve.

Now they've got a taste for how easy restrictions are, expect them to be used every winter when needed.

thinksaboutit
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:38 am

Re: Vaccination

Post by thinksaboutit »

Splatt wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:32 pm
thinksaboutit wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:29 pm If vaccines aren't preventative, what are they?
They can reduce the odds (not prevent) of severe disease.
Are you saying more than 50% of people get sick from the vaccine?
Some cohorts in the Oxford study did. Just not severely sick.

Given the CDC/MHRA filings of adverse reactions and using the Oxford risk calculator, for some demographics, they're at MORE risk of an adverse reaction to a vaccine than they are from catching and being seriously ill with SARs2.
... and even if they do get the vaccine, on top of that risk is the chance the vaccine is ineffective anyway.

So are you seriously suggesting these people should do something that put themselves at a HIGHER risk just to satisfy other people?
You originally said most people get sick from the Oxford vaccine. That's clearly not correct, when pushed on this you say some cohorts have 50% getting sick? I'm assuming a small subset, so please identify it.

Splatt
Posts: 1090
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:46 am

Re: Vaccination

Post by Splatt »

thinksaboutit wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:22 pm You originally said most people get sick from the Oxford vaccine. That's clearly not correct, when pushed on this you say some cohorts have 50% getting sick? I'm assuming a small subset, so please identify it.
MHRA yellow card is showing more side effects Oxford than Pfizer.
And the already-had-covid cohort the rate is over 50%.
So no, its not a small cohort.
MHRA database has all the issues.

Lots of side effects for a vaccine thats very ineffective against the actual disease.

hilarynw
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:00 am

Re: Vaccination

Post by hilarynw »

I too feel very alone. I am not totally against vaccinations but haven’t had one for over 35 years. I don’t feel that this disease requires me to take a vaccine, especially one with such a new technology. I prefer to support my immune system and take any possible risks from contracting the disease. I at least know roughly what those risks are whereas I don’t know the long-term risks from the vaccination.

Remember that the vaccine is irreversible. It’s not like a medication that you can stop taking if you get side effects.

Be true to yourself. If you truly don’t want it, that is all that matters. You don’t need to justify yourself to anyone. When you arrive at that place and know that that decision is right for you, you will feel strong.

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