ROADMAP

Splatt
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Re: ROADMAP

Post by Splatt »

fon wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:21 pm Help??? It would take ten years to draft it and 30 more to agree to it!
Fine. Time to get started on one. Other countries have managed it with no issues.

This "unwritten constitution" has and continues to cause issues.

Splatt
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Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:46 am

Re: ROADMAP

Post by Splatt »

fon wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:49 pm It's much more than that, there is no extent to the power of Parliament, it is unlimited.
Again fine, make it so that it requires debate, HoL and votes to repeal the law banning restrictions and then more time to enact new legislation.

Then they'd need large scale support AND it would take a significant amount of time.

Far better than the current mess.

fon
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Re: ROADMAP

Post by fon »

Splatt wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:32 pm Fine. Time to get started on one. Other countries have managed it with no issues.
Our friends in Canada have been struggling with the constitution since 1867, but the document is still not endorsed by all the provinces. The long pole in the tent is usually Quebec.
This "unwritten constitution" has and continues to cause issues.
I'm sure all constitutions (written and unwritten) have issues. I like the current set up where parliament is sovereign.

CoronanationStreet
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Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:03 pm

Re: ROADMAP

Post by CoronanationStreet »

Splatt wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:32 pm
fon wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:21 pm Help??? It would take ten years to draft it and 30 more to agree to it!
Fine. Time to get started on one. Other countries have managed it with no issues.

This "unwritten constitution" has and continues to cause issues.
And it's not as if there aren't precedents which can be imported and tweaked so 10 years to write it is a nonsense A lot of it would be modernising existing rights and procedures. The big questions would be:

1. What does it include? In my view it would need to be an updated bill of (individual) rights and a Parliamentary constitution. It would have to reflect the "values and procedures" the majority of modern Britons wish to see underpin what it means to be British.

Cue almost civil-war scale "social" media arguments on all sides, propaganda, scare-mongering etc etc. about whose rights are most important. Not an easy one.

2. How would it be agreed? This is the big question, but presumably by a referendum it would be wise to avoid a repeat of the Brexit referendum, and have a larger majority required (as well as for future amendments).

CoronanationStreet
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Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:03 pm

Re: ROADMAP

Post by CoronanationStreet »

FreedomofAssociation wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:44 pm I read it the opposite way. I don't read 'we are giving you these freedoms gradually.' I read 'we will continue to suspend your civil liberties indefinitely, but we have a makebelieve timeline by which we intend to gradually give them back, contingently.' To which I reply, 'Actually, fat-arsed dictator, I don't respect a word of it. And, by the way, if you mean to pose so grandiosely, could you not at least bother to comb your hair, like the other fascists? The act doesn't work anymore.' If he sticks to the timeline, I'll eat my hat and everyone else's. I have a huge appetite for hat and have been starving for a year.
Super stuff! I'm happy to eat a few hats too. Alas, I think we'll be going hungry.

The bigger point is as the evidence eventually points towards there being no continuing emergency, does the possibility of successful legal challenge against the lockdown legislation increase?

I'm hoping there are a few human rights and public law lawyers out there on the case.

fon
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Re: ROADMAP

Post by fon »

Richard789 wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:05 pm If the NHS worries about whether they will be able to cope, they must sort it out themselves. And they must be told now that they must sort themselves out over the summer because there will be no social controls next winter.
I agree with the sentiments you express. But we cannot afford to be naive or niggardly. It is of paramount importance that the NHS can withstand any surge twice the size of the covid19 surges seen recently. If we are to use the NHS model, AND avoid lockdown we need to beef it up. Listen to what I mean.
  • In the politician's bag there are now three tools to handle surges in respiratory illness:
    1. tax rises to beef up the NHS
    2. tax rises to beef up vaccination research
    3. lockdowns
  • Now , the first two of those options are not favoured by Conservative politicians, esp. the first, since a) voters don't like tax rises and b) lockdowns can be done whenever the need arises, seeming to delay the need for a tax rise. They doi lockdown instead, pound to a penny.
So this English Tory party will get through this pandemic and then do nothing at all until the next one comes up.

So the right thing to do is to sort the NHS out, but I don't know how to get it through. If we want to use this NHS welfare state model, it just won't work with ConservativeS in power and pretty soon, we'll have more lockdown, when the next winter comes along.

And that's the real trouble. The answer doesn't lie in laws, and constitutions, it dependS on making the natural ruling party of England accept. It is Cheaper to beef up the NHS than to have annual winter lockdowns. It's just a matter of lowest cost. Once they know that they'll do the right thing. But, being sensible Conservatives, they want things on the cheap. But that just won't cut it.It's just how it is.

Splatt
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Re: ROADMAP

Post by Splatt »

fon wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:18 pm
I'm sure all constitutions (written and unwritten) have issues. I like the current set up where parliament is sovereign.
Unaccountable parliament bound by no laws (and as this has shown no scrutiny or balances) is dangerous.

fon
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Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:47 pm

Re: ROADMAP

Post by fon »

Splatt wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:42 pm [

Unaccountable parliament bound by no laws (and as this has shown no scrutiny or balances) is dangerous.
The commons is accountable in a democracyto voters.

Splatt
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Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:46 am

Re: ROADMAP

Post by Splatt »

fon wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:55 pm The commons is accountable in a democracyto voters.
... and mechanisms for avoiding debate and scrutiny have been used throughout this.
The system failed.

Again, make it 2 stage. First they need to repeal a law. Then they need a new law.

Splatt
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Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:46 am

Re: ROADMAP

Post by Splatt »

The NHS cannot be fixed by shovelling more money towards it.
It always has more funding per head than most western services and provides longer waiting lists, higher mortality and fewer treatments, fewer beds and fewer ICUs.

It structurally rotten to the core. You may as well burn the extra money.

The issue is you're not allowed to criticise the sacred cow, therefore it'll never, ever improve.

A lot of the lack of preparation for THIS winter were the middle managers and bean counters not bothering at the end of the last one.

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