Why it's Still Important to Argue Against Lockdowns

Rudolph Rigger
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:04 am

Why it's Still Important to Argue Against Lockdowns

Post by Rudolph Rigger »

Vaccine passports are an ethical abhorrence, but do they make sense as a public health measure?

Of course they don't, and unless the collective brains in government have a lower processing power than a turnip, they know this too. The only conclusion one can draw is that there is another agenda, other than public health, at play here.

It's my view that, even knowing this, it's still important to argue things as if the government really believed these damnable things were of some use for public health.

Because that's how they're going to "sell" them to us - and we need to be prepared for their lies on this.

It seems that the lockdown ship sailed a long time ago - but it's critical, again in my view, that we keep chipping away at this. Everything rests on the failed hypothesis that lockdowns are effective in reducing cases and, therefore, deaths.

CLAIM : lockdowns have been effective at significantly reducing deaths from covid19
If this claim is true then the converse must also be true, that the death toll would have been significantly higher had lockdowns not been implemented. Comparison of lockdown vs no-lockdown states in the US shows that no-lockdown states have fared slightly better, on average, in terms of mortality. Furthermore, Sweden's excess mortality over this last year, is barely distinguishable from the average over the previous 10 years. Whilst this data is not sufficient to disprove the claim it is very strong evidence that lockdowns have not had a significant impact on mortality outcomes.
Status of claim : very weak, strong evidence to suggest it is false

CLAIM : asymptomatic transmission is a significant factor in the spread of covid19
The recent review and meta-analysis of the data concludes that for household transmission there is an 18% likelihood of symptomatic transmission and only a 0.7% likelihood of asymptomatic transmission. This is consistent with what we know about all other respiratory viruses; asymptomatic transmission is not a driver of infection. This study looked at the data for household transmission which is long-term and close-quarters and so the risk of asymptomatic transmission in the wider community will be very much smaller.
Status of claim : FALSE

Why is this important?

Firstly, the (incorrect) assumption that asymptomatic transmission is a significant factor driving infections is the primary rationale for measures such as lockdowns, masks and social distancing. Vaccine passports are entirely reliant on the notion of asymptomatic transmission - a way of identifying those without symptoms, or vaccination, who might spread the disease. The assumption being that those un-vaccinated without symptoms present a higher risk than the vaccinated without symptoms. Of course, both groups of people represent an extraordinarily low risk of transmission if asymptomatic.

Secondly, vaccine passports are a way of "locking down" the un-vaccinated; restricting their movement. The assumption being that such a measure reduces deaths and infections. But if restriction of movement (lockdown) has had no significant impact over the last, mostly un-vaccinated, year then why should it suddenly become an effective measure when applied to a subset of the population?

The third main issue is the effectiveness of the vaccines themselves. Let's forget side effects. Let's assume the vaccines are 90% effective in reducing serious symptoms and deaths. The overwhelming number of deaths from covid19 have occurred in what has been termed the "vulnerable". From the 2020 mortality figures in England and Wales less than 2% of covid19 deaths occurred in the under 50's. Let's make things even worse and put this split at 70.

In 2020, in England and Wales, 16% of deaths were in the under 70's group and 84% in the over 70's group. So let's imagine we had been able to vaccinate the over 70's before the pandemic started back in March 2020. How many deaths would we have seen in 2020?

We'd have had 12,806 in the under 70's, as before, but now with a 90% effective vaccine we'd have seen 6,802 deaths in the vulnerable over 70's group. This gives us a total of 19,608 deaths - or just under 20,000 from covid19.

With the vaccine, therefore, we have reduced the risk of death from covid19 to lower than that of a bad flu year

If we don't have masks, social distancing, lockdowns, flu-vax passports, for flu - then why are they considered necessary for covid19? What's so special about it?

Sorry for the long post - but it's really important we chip away at some of the underlying assumptions, even though it's mostly futile for the covjihadeen (those engaged in covid-jihad). I think so anyway.

miahoneybee
Posts: 1332
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:26 pm

Re: Why it's Still Important to Argue Against Lockdowns

Post by miahoneybee »

Agree RR there are lots of people chopping away at lots of things everywhere..let's hope those responsible crumble and fall.
The stand in the parks across countries is lovely to meet like minded people and have real human contact..
The weather helps too 😉
:D

Speedstick
Posts: 487
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:27 pm

Re: Why it's Still Important to Argue Against Lockdowns

Post by Speedstick »

Great posts here again from RR and Miahoneybee.
Yes absolutely it is vital we keep challenging every word of the psychological warfare being waged against us by Johnson's government's and associated sinister forces.

funtimes
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:45 am

Re: Why it's Still Important to Argue Against Lockdowns

Post by funtimes »

What makes you think people are not arguing against lockdowns? What makes you think everyone wants what's going on? Are you sure you're not stuck in an echo chamber that's only reinforcing the belief that you're on your own and nobody is listening? There are law suits pending around the world, there are charities and organizations, establishment, institutions fighting for peoples freedoms and for return from the delusional psychosis. There are people around the world from all backgrounds demanding answers. The public are gradually waking up to the bullsh*t and are beginning to take action. There are government officials demanding answers. There are justice systems firing up globally to have questions answered. People from all walks of life and from all levels are calling things out.

What you are posting about is regarding your own projections about how you see the world but during this complex and traumatic time you are forgetting to work out what is really happening, what has happened and what is a product of the trauma you have been through. These are your typical traits of trauma - the inability to distinguish between what is happening right now and what has happened. You're on repeat like a broken record going around and around telling yourself that things are still the way you knew them to be beforehand. This simply isn't true. And the more you persist the more delusional, alienated and distressed you will become. You have to learn to let go of what was before the trauma because things are different now and the trauma happened that changed lots of things. It's now about dealing with the trauma and to understand trauma is seperate to what is going on now and who you are fundamentally behind the trauma. People change during trauma but they don't always recognize they have changed BECAUSE of the trauma. They cannot distinguish the difference between wartorn Iraq/Afghanistan and civilized (relatively!) UK. And so they go out assuming that the world is still the same as when they were getting shot and their mates were getting injured. When this is left untreated it can be like a silent fire that guts everything in it's path.

You're then swapping this out for everybody elses experiences and trying to project it out into the world like people are fighting the exact same fight as you and life is precisely as it is for them as it is for you. This is simply not true. All you have to do is go and out seek to be the judge and identify contrasting evidence to counter your beliefs and you'll see that there is plenty of going on around the world to prove you wrong. The basic principles of CBT teaches you ways of dealing with thinking traps. Forgetting to accept that it's simply what is going on in your own mind. You are right in what you post in that the facts need to be presented but assuming it's still important to argue against lockdowns is trying to rationalize your own trauma and then make it everybody elses trauma as well. And this is where the problems begin because people get sucked into the darkness of another persons suffering. Ask anyone whose dealt with someone with PTSD/C-PTSD who struggles to keep his trauma seperate to his relationships and ends up dragging the ones he loves with him through battles nobody else might not be fighting, especially in the way he is.

This is why it's so important people start integrating what is happening and start healing from the trauma they have faced otherwise they risk continuing to breed the sickness that has formed. It's a shame because most people are not trained to recognize trauma nor even to deal with it personally. We are part of a sick society and culture that keeps people underprepared for pretty much everything except going to school and then going to work and paying bills, mental illness statistics prove this and this isn't something new. The tragedy of the falling mental health has been a reality for decades and decades.

You might be isolated, you might feel completely alienated, you might believe there is no hope, you might assume nobody is actually continuing to hold the government accountable and that action is not being taken. That's YOUR world that YOU need to come to terms with and start understanding, examining and seeking to find out what is helping you get through this and what isn't and what are YOUR problems and what are not. You'll find that the majority of this experience revolves around how you are dealing with the stress from the outside world and how that is helping you to build the most realistic and beneficial picture of what is happening.

Wallowing in the darkness is not going to make the darkness go away. In case you haven't noticed this very website was created to challenge what is going on. I'm not sure if you're visiting the frontpage for Lockdown Sceptics but there are articles posted every single day. So you're on a website that is challenging the narrative while you believe that isn't the case. This is called cognitive dissonance and just because you're not a victim of the mainstream narrative itself doesn't mean you're not a victim of the trauma everybody is facing in general, whether they side with this or that.

You're simply asking for permission to return to normal and resume your normal life. You're asking to be okay to suffer and that everybody else is okay to continue to suffer as well. You're essentially promoting the issues we have at the core of all of this. This isn't going to happen, not like you think it will anyway. In case you haven't noticed those pleas for help and return to normal have been ignored for a year now. The government doesn't care about nice and well informed messages demanding rational conclusions. But the government does care when action is being taken that doesn't apologize for that action being taken. And if you look around the world people ARE taking action and choosing to get over what is happening/happened to them in order to ensure they are in the best possible position to challenge what is going on. You're not much use when you're still asking for permission to leave your self-made prison cell. The door is open, leave the f*cking cell my friend. Go and find the others. Stop half heartedly flirting with the notion of getting over this and actually start the process of doing that.

Heal up and start rebuilding your life. You don't need to ask for permission to get better. You don't need permission to leave your self-made prison cell. It's all a matter of perception management and understand you are the person behind what you experience. You are not a passenger in the process. You are the driver. Understanding the shadows that exist are simply a product of your mind and the prolonged stress you have experienced, the gaslighting, the echo chambers, the weaponization of social and mainstream media, the psy-op and systematic destruction of society around you. All that is not you. It's external to you. This is called dealing with the trauma and identifying where the trauma begins and where you exist beyond it. And that's where you can start to live your life again.

As mentioned above, absolutely agree with the main premise of your post but the underlying context is of pandering to the trauma and the suffering. There's an underlying message and it's about the suffering, not the actual process of moving on. If it was, you'd be making a post about moving on and not aiming to remain where you are. There has to be a point where you can put that aside and understand it, talk about it, embrace it but also take action in order to move beyond it. Otherwise you're always at the same place with the same problems and each and every day is no different from the rest. You're not moving foward. You're not living. And this is a sh*t place to be.

Be strong. People are going to have to learn to deal with this stuff and learn to take this as a big life lesson that if embraced will make them stronger and more resilient but also more aware of the conditions that make these things happen in order to try and make sure those conditions don't form for the same things to happen again. Why this has been so difficult for many is because they never had to deal with things like before and so were not aware of the conditions that caused these things to materialize as they did and so had no protection. Essentially they've potentially understand the world is not as it seems and that the only solution is to take their lives into their hands, like they have had to do all their lives but perhaps been unaware of having the need to do so. Let's hope this creates an optimal level of protection and awareness so people moving forward are able to spot the warning signs and then deal with them before the problems really occur. And this in a societal level is the shift in consciousness we need in order for people to re-align themselves with what is important and start detaching themselves from the connections they have to the external world and perhaps even to themselves that are not beneficial.

This is a big life lesson. It's made people see how flimsy 'real life' is and how sick society and culture is.
Will people heed these lessons? Or will they simply revert back to being asleep when the next opportunity to do so occurs?

The way forward is healing and integration and then aiming your sights on actual targets of interest and not the shadows on the wall in the theater of your own mind. Those targets are not real. Once you deal with your own demons, you can better deal with problems in the external world.

Rudolph Rigger
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:04 am

Re: Why it's Still Important to Argue Against Lockdowns

Post by Rudolph Rigger »

funtimes wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:55 pm What makes you think people are not arguing against lockdowns? What makes you think everyone wants what's going on?
I don't think this.

Fun, dear chap, you over-analyse somewhat in your talk of projection and trauma and CBT. I'm well aware there are a lot of others who think like me and also argue against lockdowns. Whether we are enough to make any difference - I don't know.

The main point of my post was not to forget lockdowns as a central component here - because without it the whole sordid house of cards falls down.

I'm also well aware that discussing things on here - which is something of an "echo chamber" - is quite possibly futile. I do it to find support from like-minded folk, to hone my arguments, to marshal my thoughts - and with the tiniest glimmer of hope that someone with more influence than I might find something useful in what I have to write.

I'm not traumatised - I'm angry. Very different things.

miahoneybee
Posts: 1332
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:26 pm

Re: Why it's Still Important to Argue Against Lockdowns

Post by miahoneybee »

Same RR...the 77th brigade your long posts are too boring to read so they are passed over and only supportive posts read ( even if opinions differ..its called a democracy)....try shortening them and getting to irrelevant points quicker......
:D

RichardTechnik
Posts: 221
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:01 am

Re: Why it's Still Important to Argue Against Lockdowns

Post by RichardTechnik »

Rudolph Rigger wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:18 pm
funtimes wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:55 pm What makes you think people are not arguing against lockdowns? What makes you think everyone wants what's going on?
I don't think this.

Fun, dear chap, you over-analyse somewhat in your talk of projection and trauma and CBT. I'm well aware there are a lot of others who think like me and also argue against lockdowns. Whether we are enough to make any difference - I don't know.

The main point of my post was not to forget lockdowns as a central component here - because without it the whole sordid house of cards falls down.

I'm also well aware that discussing things on here - which is something of an "echo chamber" - is quite possibly futile. I do it to find support from like-minded folk, to hone my arguments, to marshal my thoughts - and with the tiniest glimmer of hope that someone with more influence than I might find something useful in what I have to write.

I'm not traumatised - I'm angry. Very different things.
Thanks RR
You have explained my position as well, perfectly. I post elsewhere and contribute to several active groups in different ways. Opposition to this goverment and its fellow travellers and acolytes is certainly growing as more and more people are seeing the lies and deceit for themselves. Comments following MSM articles are mentioning authority figures hanging from lamposts but I'd rather we did not descend into chaos as a nation. But those who don't read history ( I thought that was at least a small part of PPE degrees ?) are condemned to repeat it.

Lockdowns are a central component as are the vaccination passports Gove has been tasked with trying to push. His appeal for support from the DT comments seems to have fallen on deaf ears. They need to be robustly and comprehensively rejected by the public. As does the absurd 'social distancing' and pointless mask decrees.

funtimes
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:45 am

Re: Why it's Still Important to Argue Against Lockdowns

Post by funtimes »

It's not discussing, it's wanting to feel sorry for yourself and then encouraging it in others.
And without a direction people are going in it's all about being a victim and nothing else. There's no acknowledgment of the issue and then moving forward. It's simply about wallowing, feeling sorry for yourself, making excuses, getting angry at anyone who actually wants to posit ways forward, alienating yourself from what is happening even more and deluding yourself into believing this is the currency you can use to then start living your life again. How is that working out for you? I don't see many people around giving you the feedback you need and want. And it's not because they can't see you or hear you or because they can't use a web browser. Many people see Lockdown Sceptics, it's a top notch source for everything COVID-19 in the UK, excellent resource. Why aren't they coming to your rescue when they see your posts? Why are you get at tops perhaps 5-6 replies? Why isn't there an outcry of support?

If what you were doing was the solution, the entire world would be doing what you are doing. But it's not. Even those against the lockdowns aren't here in full force. Why is that? Why aren't the most extreme anti-lockdown people here? You'd think we would have thousands and thousands of people here. And just because you think you're right in standing your ground (which you absolutely are) it doesn't mean that you're standing your ground in the best possible way and what you're doing is actually working and beneficial. You're not actually standing your ground. You're asking permission to stand your ground while pretending that you're capable of dealing with all this while then seeking to find all the other ones who can't find the ability to stand their ground to reinforce a sense of importance like you're all still worth something. You're feeding into each others weaknesses and not focusing on strengths. Evidently you are not able to deal with it and that is okay but you need to accept it and then find ways to actually deal with it. Not pretending to deal with it. Actually deal with it. Then you'll find ways that actually work because you're actively working to find them. Go out and get what you're worth instead of expecting the internet to fix your issues.

This should be a key lesson learned in life prior to any 'pandemic' - the world won't give you your worth. You have to find that yourself. And you're not finding it here hence why you keep coming back trying to create it in a place that only panders to your weaknesses and insecurities and not your strength and potential. If you want people to hold your hand and tell you that you're weak and incapable and that you're justified for giving up and turning into a little b*tch then fair enough but never has that been where you will find the light, not now and definetly not anytime in the past. Might explain why you're here in the first place and that has got very little to do with a lockdown and simply comes down to your life choices prior to the lockdowns and you need something more than a forum like this for that much of a complex backstory.

You want to be here not because of the lockdown but because you never had the framework in place to deal with things anyway.
Most of you are here because come any sort of difficulty you'd try and find the easy way out. You want people to make excuses. Your worldview is skewed and not based on the reality of the world around you and the world around you is a mean and nasty place, as Rocky said in the movie and it will beat you to your knees if you let it. You've probably spent your life in a rather priveleged way never having to deal with challenges that tear apart the way you thought the world works. In that way you are guilty because the government find people like you the easiest to target because they know you will crumble first. It takes a certain kind of person to see the reality of society and culture and to set about defining their life based on the truth and not on some romantic vision. That romantic vision evidently isn't real, as we see today. How many are suffering because of it? What are they doing to deal with it?

It's been over a year. It's time to get a grip and not because you should simply forget about everything or that you should accept everything. You need to get a grip for your own sanity and for your own future and because you need to face what is happening instead of trying to write elaborate posts on a board demanding the world reinforce you at every step asking for permission to live your life again. Then you can meet this head on because you're constantly evolving alongside what is happening instead of thinking you don't need to keep up.

And yes, CBT will work great right now for lots of people. It will be the default therapy option bucketloads of people will get when the NHS gets it's act together. And the research shows it's consistently successful in comparison to many other treatment options, including anti-depressants. It's also self guided which means once you know the foundations of CBT you can be your own therapist and you don't need to be 'in therapy' to practice. Understanding trauma right now is critical. Read some books on it. Research it. Or don't, upto you. Your loss if you don't. Pretty much a foundational understanding of clinical psychology/psychiatry/psychopathology right now is key seeing as this is a mental health crisis more than anything else and therefore being able to create FEASIBLE solutions to deal with the mental health crisis we see before our eyes is pivotal in moving forward. You can get that by embarking on a personal journey to learn about this stuff. And now we're into the realm of precisely the things I have been talking about - transforming ourselves, living healthier lives, understanding the world around us and ourselves in it, healing, recovering, challenging problems, overcoming obstacles, becoming ourselves etc.

We are not enough to do much until we understand OUR OWN extremely important position in what is going on that means EVERYBODY has to take control instead of expecting someone else to do it and they need to do that not just for others but for themselves. What people think is actually making a difference is cosmetic. The real change is on the individual level. What people are doing in their own lives to be stronger, more resilient, more in-tune with reality, more capable of sharing the burden and responsibility, able to help others by first helping themselves, being proactive, taking the initative, sharing wisdom, life experience, knowledge, developing healthy ways to cope, empowering confidence.

You need to get off the start line to even know whether you have the ability to do any of the above before you even think about helping others.
This is not romance. It's not a fairytale. This is the f*cked up society we live in. People need to start leading their own lives and take responsibiliy for them. People have to learn to be able to live their own lives to the truest extent possible and that takes more than just a 'pandemic', that's a life journey. But for all that you have to get off the start line.

fon
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Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:47 pm

Re: Why it's Still Important to Argue Against Lockdowns

Post by fon »

Rudolph Rigger wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:15 am Vaccine passports are an ethical abhorrence, but do they make sense as a public health

That depends on the goals of the govt.

If the goal is to continue lockdown as long as possible then VaccPorts make no sense, since nobody will be going anywhere anyway, but if the goal is to dispense with lockdown measures, such as open beer gardens, in 6 and a bit days, as the plan demands, then VaccPorts for larger events or indoor hospitality, may be intended to be used to make opening for those events earlier.

In other words, it is too late in this is rapidly subsiding wave for VaccPorts to be in place, a week today the Beer Gardens will be filling up. But the govt. will be on tenter hooks, will it cause a surge, or not. If it does cause any sort of surge, VaccPorts will be straight back in the frame. In a few days we will know.

The lockdown zealots are running out of time and cases, Meanwhile cases in Wales continue to slump faster than ever, 7-day case rates by specimen date are down 20% or more each day, despite amazingly high test numbers. Basically, the virus is gone while they argue about what to do!

Fudge
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:42 am

Re: Why it's Still Important to Argue Against Lockdowns

Post by Fudge »

Time to fess up..Despite being deeply traumatised, existentially vacuumed, an 'anti blah blah', fast asleep, key board warrior with absolutely no sense of what is going on outside of my house never mind within the geopolitical, socio economic spectrum and an IQ of 7 on a good day, I find LSF a good source of camoraderie, wit, insight, vulnerability, emotion, humour from those that know who you are and whom I will gladly stand the line with. LSF is also a great source of intelligence* gathering as to what propaganda the neurotic disciples are tasked with farting out and as such the level of hysteria and delusion I'm up against. A sort of 'know thy enemy" Lao Tzu type position. So far, I still feel very confident to breath the air, hug, laugh, keep my sleeves rolled down and trust myself in how I relate to the most glaringly obvious machiavellian scam of hoodwinkery ever to be recorded and that I'm still able to do this despite my believe in unicorns, lack of fear that germs exist and general cavalier maverick approach to life as this is the only earth walk I've got, that I'm comfortable with mortality and until my time is up I will eeek out every bit of living possible so that at my death I will be as 'full' as possible of a life lived. The Eisengruppen can threaten me with whatever they want, implement whatever they want, ostracise me as much as they want, ID me as much as they want, baton me as much as they want..etc etc..but they simply can't take or have the 'me' in me, therefore they will never win and will always be the defeated; time and time again.

On a final note, I must apologies to all sentiment beings with genuine intelligence, my use of the word 'intelligence' was in the context of a military phrase often used to associate with the gathering of information to assess the strength of the opposing side. This was the meaning. I absolutely did not use the word 'intelligence' to make any connection or links, no matter how tenuous, between the neurotic disciples and low wattage output of cerebral functioning now witnessed so frequently. Lets hope some sort of vaccine can be found to help with this. You see, I'm not anti-vaxx after all.

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