The authoritarian scientific establishment

Richard789
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:29 pm

The authoritarian scientific establishment

Post by Richard789 »

There is a fine piece by Matthew Crawford on the link below on how the scientific establishment has over the years become authoritarian and excludes perfectly sensible dissidents (such as the Great Barrington team). The article then goes on to comment on the use of fear to control the population.

https://unherd.com/2021/05/how-science- ... corrupted/

miahoneybee
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Re: The authoritarian scientific establishment

Post by miahoneybee »

Thanks richard 789..

Teebs
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Re: The authoritarian scientific establishment

Post by Teebs »

In my relatively brief scientific career (physics) the one episode I can remember, near the outset of my studies, was the "Star Wars" programme of Ronald Reagan.

It was widely believed in the physics community that Star Wars was pie-in-the-sky. For several reasons, it was just impossible to maintain the integrity of a laser beam from earth to space (or any meaningful distance in the sky) to destroy a missile. Likewise the idea of satelites shooting "x-ray lasers" was comic book stuff.

Nevertheless, the political pressure pushed the scepticism underground. (And I know a few physicists who happily took advantage of the flood of money to do their own work, ostensibly on Star Wars related projects but really something else, while just paying lip service to the narrative.)

This was during the "cold war" confrontation with the USSR. The cruise missiles at Greenham Common were a fresh, raw memory. Anyone doubting that Star Wars was real, was almost a traitor. Peer pressure was intense, although we just smiled and laughed quietly.

Then, like now, dodgy politics usurped science. These failed and dishonest political leaders around us today are absolutely desperate to be vindicated - that the enormous damage and devastation they have visited upon people's lives be supported by "science" - and medicine is being usurped, a bit like physics and engineering were usurped around 35 years ago.

It is now accepted that Star Wars (or the "Strategic Defence Initiative" to use its given name) was little more than a pipe dream of Edward Teller, who managed to whisper it to Ronald Reagan. (Teller is popularly believed to be the basis for Dr Strangelove.) It has faded into memory as a sad joke.

Covidian laws are different. SDI did not ruin people's lives or destroy livelihoods. (It just warped the US federal budget.) Ronald Reagan declared "victory" in the cold war, and all was forgiven. (In an interesting historical twist, his apologists now admit SDI was never serious, but just a super-smart trick to get the Soviets to over-spend on military research. That is nonsense. I saw SDI first-hand in research establishments.)

Because of the real and huge damage Covid laws are doing, and the very high stakes for the politicians who are implicated, I fear this usurpation of medicine will last for longer, and be far more profound than the temporary and relatively harmless usurpation of physics by SDI.

And it is not just the politicians. Various members of the scientific establishment have gone along with the narrative, basically performing a huge real-life experiment on their populations.

If a physicist in the 1980s gave a glowing lecture about SDI, people just smiled and shrugged. But when government scientists in SAGE and other such bodies around the world, endorse and justify destructive policies, their necks are directly on the line.

Not even the great schism of Galileo can be compared to what is happening today. If you believed or disbelieved Galileo, the dire consequences were for your after-life, not the day to day existence.

Covidian Orthodoxy is adamant. Censorship is its main weapon. That is an admission of both its weakness, and its strength. It will not surrender or retreat easily. It is in power and if it is overthrown, the consequences for the people involved will be dire.

As I look around me and see so many people with silly useless pieces of fabric on their faces, and governments enforcing these with such zeal, then perhaps we are not too negative to fear we now risk entering some new Dark Age and leaving behind the Enlightenment that started over 3 centuries ago.

Nobody
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Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:05 pm

Re: The authoritarian scientific establishment

Post by Nobody »

What is behind these changes? Institutionally? It is excessive competition, all educational institutions are extremely oppressive and exclusionary, using gentle forms of symbolised violence against outsiders. The issue is really the monopolisation of resources via closures amidst a system that must be perceived to be legitimate, so that the processes concern legitimation. I watched a video by a lawyer who had prosecuted scientific publishers for their corruption. It seems to me just part of the use of institutions to produce markets for particular products using complex symbolising mediums, just like the virus has been signified by the use of science to create a new global market for universal vaccination and passports.
More and more people competing for scarce resources. As there are more competitors there had to be more arbitrary decisions over the value of different products. Just look at the humanities where, because they are inconsequential, PhDs can be bought and sold and the battle then moves on to publication which is then utterly corrupt.

thinksaboutit
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Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:38 am

Re: The authoritarian scientific establishment

Post by thinksaboutit »

Richard789 wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 2:32 pm There is a fine piece by Matthew Crawford on the link below on how the scientific establishment has over the years become authoritarian and excludes perfectly sensible dissidents (such as the Great Barrington team). The article then goes on to comment on the use of fear to control the population.

https://unherd.com/2021/05/how-science- ... corrupted/
Did you associate "perfectly sensible" and "Great Barrington" ?.. Why would you do this?

fon
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Re: The authoritarian scientific establishment

Post by fon »

Richard789 wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 2:32 pm how the scientific establishment has over the years become authoritarian
It is shameful to witness the cavalier attitide of many top scientists.

miahoneybee
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Re: The authoritarian scientific establishment

Post by miahoneybee »

I would agree with your posts teebs and no body..
Thanks ..

Speedstick
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Re: The authoritarian scientific establishment

Post by Speedstick »

Great post Richard 789.
Of course the GDB or a similar protection protocol should have been used as the response to Covid.
We can all see and understand that this virus is/was only a significant danger to those with weakened immune responses.
Those with with weakened immune responses as a result of frailty, serious disease or significant metabolic rate disorders should have been offered focused protection.
This focused protection would have saved just as many lives as lockdown maybe even more, as the vulnerable groups would have been protected, and whilst expensive would have been far cheaper than the astronomical costs of lockdown and far far less damaging to our children and society as a whole.

thinksaboutit
Posts: 675
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:38 am

Re: The authoritarian scientific establishment

Post by thinksaboutit »

Speedstick wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 5:55 am Great post Richard 789.
Of course the GDB or a similar protection protocol should have been used as the response to Covid.
We can all see and understand that this virus is/was only a significant danger to those with weakened immune responses.
Those with with weakened immune responses as a result of frailty, serious disease or significant metabolic rate disorders should have been offered focused protection.
This focused protection would have saved just as many lives as lockdown maybe even more, as the vulnerable groups would have been protected, and whilst expensive would have been far cheaper than the astronomical costs of lockdown and far far less damaging to our children and society as a whole.
Except the GBD didn't actually propose how this focussed protection would be accomplished and neither did any of its advocates.

jmc
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Re: The authoritarian scientific establishment

Post by jmc »

Teebs wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 2:54 am In my relatively brief scientific career (physics) the one episode I can remember, near the outset of my studies, was the "Star Wars" programme of Ronald Reagan.

It was widely believed in the physics community that Star Wars was pie-in-the-sky. For several reasons, it was just impossible to maintain the integrity of a laser beam from earth to space (or any meaningful distance in the sky) to destroy a missile. Likewise the idea of satelites shooting "x-ray lasers" was comic book stuff.
Actually Star Wars worked to perfection. As a psyche-ops programme. You should read the first hand accounts of the top Soviet people at the time on the panic in the various military / science research bureaus and how much influence this had on undermining the old hardliners (who almost got us all killed at Able Archer'83) who were replaced by the Gorbachev people. There would have been no Perestroika without Star Wars. And without Perestroika there would probably still be a Soviet Union.

The physics was fine. The stuff that was actually going to be used not the stuff for public consumption. Stop thinking about direct effect to destroy and more about indirect effects to disrupt and you would be on the right track.

Now writing the real time targeting software, that was a different matter. At the time I was working for a company that sold very advanced software tools and we started wondering why so much of out business was with obscure military bases and universities. As well as the usual suspects. Turns out there was a lot of interesting SDI research going on in the most unexpected places. Because the guys who made just done the Cruise and MX programmes knew exactly where the problems were. Implementation.

As for the priesthood. Only a very small percentage of the population has any real substantial scientific skills. Before the 1960's most of the people who persevered with study to get a PhD or equivalent research position had a high probability of have substantive scientific skills. After the 1960's when the production of science degrees went up at least 10 fold and the number of PhD's by far more the actual real talent pool had not increased as a percentage of the population but the number of people with paper credentials had. So the probability now of someone with a PhD or equivalent research position having substantive scientific skills is a small fraction of what it was 60 or 70 years ago.

This is the professional equivalent of grade inflation. The dilution of professional competence by a very large increase in professional credentialization.

So back in the 1950's if someone with some formal professional scientific qualifications expressed an opinion on their area of specialty their opinion usually had merit. Nowadays if someone with some formal professional scientific qualifications expresses an opinion on their area of specialty they should be assumed to be talking complete bollocks until proved otherwise.

Those of you who deal with such people on a regular basis will know what I am talking about.

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