Contaminated PCR test swabs?

thinksaboutit
Posts: 562
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:38 am

Re: Contaminated PCR test swabs?

Post by thinksaboutit »

jmc wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 5:22 pm But there again if anyone had said 18 months ago that people would be stripped of their basic human rights and the country turned into a police state based on a fraudulent epidemiological data from almost 20 years ago and what was known very early on to be little more than a very bad cold that only was a health risk to already sick frail people you would have just shook your head in pity at any poor benighted person who might believe such a fantastical situation might ever come to pass.

Would nt you?

Because that's how the Normalcy Bias works.
"Police state" Really?

Do you actually believe this?

Nobody
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:05 pm

Re: Contaminated PCR test swabs?

Post by Nobody »

"Police state" Really?

Do you actually believe this?

Yes, it is perfectly obvious. When the state begins to dictate innocuous behavioural edicts defended by law, what else would you call it?
The only thing is this is not merely a singular "state" it is a global mobilisation of all the institutional resources of the groups who forge institutions in order to make their will realisable in the world.
This pandemic shows a major shift in the nature of the state and the relation of institutions to people. If this was the 1970s, national state institutions would have acted to protect national interests and attempt to secure local-national solutions. What this pandemic shows is the use of all the institutional sources of power available to the elite in order to exercise their will in changing the nature of the social reality the rest of us inhabit.

jmc
Posts: 403
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:01 am

Re: Contaminated PCR test swabs?

Post by jmc »

thinksaboutit wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 9:31 am
jmc wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 5:22 pm But there again if anyone had said 18 months ago that people would be stripped of their basic human rights and the country turned into a police state based on a fraudulent epidemiological data from almost 20 years ago and what was known very early on to be little more than a very bad cold that only was a health risk to already sick frail people you would have just shook your head in pity at any poor benighted person who might believe such a fantastical situation might ever come to pass.

Would nt you?

Because that's how the Normalcy Bias works.
"Police state" Really?

Do you actually believe this?
Well given that people have been confined for long periods of time to a small area under pain of a fine, have almost no freedom to travel, most borders are closed and even the most basic human rights set aside, and millions have had their livelihoods taken aware and are now dependent on state handouts to survive, yes its a police state. If you were familiar with actual day to day conditions of the Soviet Union and DDR pre 1989 this would all be very familiar. Actually its a bit more like Czechoslovakia in the 1970's from what my friends tell me.

And all for a novel very nasty cold virus. Yes, a perfect definition of a police state. The arbitrary and capricious setting aside of basic constitutional rights at the whim of the government and its agents.

So you must see nothing wrong with this state of affairs.

thinksaboutit
Posts: 562
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:38 am

Re: Contaminated PCR test swabs?

Post by thinksaboutit »

jmc wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:50 am
thinksaboutit wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 9:31 am
jmc wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 5:22 pm But there again if anyone had said 18 months ago that people would be stripped of their basic human rights and the country turned into a police state based on a fraudulent epidemiological data from almost 20 years ago and what was known very early on to be little more than a very bad cold that only was a health risk to already sick frail people you would have just shook your head in pity at any poor benighted person who might believe such a fantastical situation might ever come to pass.

Would nt you?

Because that's how the Normalcy Bias works.
"Police state" Really?

Do you actually believe this?
Well given that people have been confined for long periods of time to a small area under pain of a fine, have almost no freedom to travel, most borders are closed and even the most basic human rights set aside, and millions have had their livelihoods taken aware and are now dependent on state handouts to survive, yes its a police state. If you were familiar with actual day to day conditions of the Soviet Union and DDR pre 1989 this would all be very familiar. Actually its a bit more like Czechoslovakia in the 1970's from what my friends tell me.

And all for a novel very nasty cold virus. Yes, a perfect definition of a police state. The arbitrary and capricious setting aside of basic constitutional rights at the whim of the government and its agents.

So you must see nothing wrong with this state of affairs.
I'm not familiar with "day to day conditions of the Soviet Union and DDR pre 1989" and I'm prepared to bet neither are you.

Most recent in a long list of things you claim to be "familiar with", while declaring that others are not. Just your methodology.

It's not a police state and your comparisons with the eastern block are absurd, which I'm sure you know.



Your compari

RichardTechnik
Posts: 243
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:01 am

Re: Contaminated PCR test swabs?

Post by RichardTechnik »

thinksaboutit wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 3:30 pm
jmc wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:50 am
thinksaboutit wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 9:31 am

"Police state" Really?

Do you actually believe this?
Well given that people have been confined for long periods of time to a small area under pain of a fine, have almost no freedom to travel, most borders are closed and even the most basic human rights set aside, and millions have had their livelihoods taken aware and are now dependent on state handouts to survive, yes its a police state. If you were familiar with actual day to day conditions of the Soviet Union and DDR pre 1989 this would all be very familiar. Actually its a bit more like Czechoslovakia in the 1970's from what my friends tell me.

And all for a novel very nasty cold virus. Yes, a perfect definition of a police state. The arbitrary and capricious setting aside of basic constitutional rights at the whim of the government and its agents.

So you must see nothing wrong with this state of affairs.
I'm not familiar with "day to day conditions of the Soviet Union and DDR pre 1989" and I'm prepared to bet neither are you.

Most recent in a long list of things you claim to be "familiar with", while declaring that others are not. Just your methodology.

It's not a police state and your comparisons with the eastern block are absurd, which I'm sure you know.



Your compari
At it again with your boring spoilt-brat style criticism and denial which as always adds the sum total of absolutely nothing to the debate.

I'm quite sure you are not familiar with "day to day conditions of the Soviet Union and DDR pre 1989. That does not entitle you to suggest others such as jmc are not. I for one am. I cannot claim to know about the whole Soviet Union but had and had visited Leningrad and corresponded for some time with a few people in Kamchatka Oblast in the far E. Re DDR I was involved in projects around late 80s and into 90s in DDR around ports and ships in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. From what jmc has commented I guess his knowledge is probably superior to mine.

You have no idea what a police state is. I have and agree that we are rapidly becoming one. Not in the exact style of SU & DDR in the 70s and 80s which would be a bit dated 40 years on but certainly fits the current time.

In your style I'll throw you a question. What are you trying to achieve here ? I'd be interested in an answer.

jmc
Posts: 403
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:01 am

Re: Contaminated PCR test swabs?

Post by jmc »

RichardTechnik wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:11 pm At it again with your boring spoilt-brat style criticism and denial which as always adds the sum total of absolutely nothing to the debate.

I'm quite sure you are not familiar with "day to day conditions of the Soviet Union and DDR pre 1989. That does not entitle you to suggest others such as jmc are not. I for one am. I cannot claim to know about the whole Soviet Union but had and had visited Leningrad and corresponded for some time with a few people in Kamchatka Oblast in the far E. Re DDR I was involved in projects around late 80s and into 90s in DDR around ports and ships in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. From what jmc has commented I guess his knowledge is probably superior to mine.

You have no idea what a police state is. I have and agree that we are rapidly becoming one. Not in the exact style of SU & DDR in the 70s and 80s which would be a bit dated 40 years on but certainly fits the current time.

In your style I'll throw you a question. What are you trying to achieve here ? I'd be interested in an answer.
My experience is a little bit earlier. Late 70's / early 1980's. DDR experience via West Berlin. And people I knew who escaped. Over the Wall. SU experience was transitory and always regretted not taking the opportunity for a much wider trip in 1981/82. At the time it never crossed anyone's mind especially not mine that it only had less than a decade to run. Same a decade later when a trip to western Siberia fell through. To search for my best friends relatives on her fathers side. To see how many had survived the camps. Like on her mothers side the only immediate relatives on the fathers side known to have survived were my friends parents and some one or two cousins. Grandparents and brothers all died in the camps. For the crime of being intelligenzia. On the mothers side both grandparents shot out of hand in 1940 by the Russians for the crime of being Baltic German bourgeoisie.

And thats just the story of one person I know. And I known quite a few other people with similar stories. Include people whose parents were "tattoo" people.

So yeah, I have seen the Volkspolizei up close and personal. And the people they were "policing". The very definition of a police state.

Nobody
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:05 pm

Re: Contaminated PCR test swabs?

Post by Nobody »

Our sovereignty is compromised because the governments are no longer sovereign: the institutions of the state are compromised. It is because the international institutional apparatus is serving other interests and using science to legitimate interests that are cloaked in abstracted notions of publish health and the public good that rights are being ignored. If you frame policy across distances via abstracted technical criteria you will end up with formulation as alienated as the mediums via you produce them. If the national institutions concerned with public health were concerned about the well being of the public, we would never have gone down this route. It is because of the complete failure of national institutions to serve their public functions that we have seen the contravention of fundamental human rights over something little more threatening than the yearly flu. Lockdown is just a way of coercing people to accept a new way of life: perpetual vaccination as a condition of access to the public sphere. Problem is, they are effectively effacing fundamental human rights: you are supposed to have a right to access this sphere without conditions. It is extraordinary that the global state has managed, via the use of public health, to remove our rights as citizens. Why is it called a "vaccine passport"? Because it concerns your status as legal entity: they are making your citizenship conditional, this is not a right the state has to barter with: that the state is effectively doing so is very significant. Your political and human status is no longer something you derived at birth but a condition of your health-status that is itself a construct of another series of legal instruments: continuous vaccination and passports showing your status. It is interesting that political principles and citizen rights have not been part of this debate. It shows that the selection of this virus as the trigger for the political mobilisation behind it has worked brilliantly since the notion of the potential threat has been used to erase any sense of the nature of the society itself and of the rights of people within it: instead, both have been effectively annulled. People miss the function of the vaccine and what the elite are trying to institute here. They are trying to institute conditions of access to public forms of existence. It is not merely the vaccination in itself, but an institutional paraphernalia of validation that really affects the political status of the individuals within the state: the conditions of access to public space. This is a key shift.

fon
Posts: 1212
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:47 pm

Re: Contaminated PCR test swabs?

Post by fon »

RichardTechnik wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:11 pm

I'm not familiar with "day to day conditions of the Soviet Union and DDR pre 1989" and I'm prepared to bet neither are you.
From my travels around east berlin, I recall people were free to travel from district to district, meet who they wanted to meet, dress how they wanted to dress. Sit around all day in the pub drinking beer, playing cards, smoking , having fun. In no way shape or form is the police state of the UK today as free as the DDR, was then.

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