We need a new Bill of Rights out of all this.

JDee
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:35 pm

We need a new Bill of Rights out of all this.

Post by JDee »

How many constitutional arrangement written or unwritten have managed to protect their population from authoritarianism over the imposition of useless lockdowns and mask mandates?

The fact that so many haven’t means that most countries need a new bill or rights written which will fit and work within their constitutional arrangements.

The reality about the sovereignty of the UK government and parliament is the basic point that whatever any written law says it is naturally borrowed from each and every citizen. The UK government cannot therefore have the right to usurp or misuse that sovereignty of the individual man in the street, whose concern is primarily to get on with his life and living. The primary purpose of Government sovereignty and law is to support and enable its individual citizens in this endeavour. The primary purpose of parliament is to defend the right of the individual citizen or man in the street over and against the vested interests of power groups, whether business or ideological along with the government executive. Unfortunately parliament is itself made up of vested interest power groups. The man in the street now only gets the last crumbs from its table if at all.

The situation is not helped by the Human rights act 2010 which focuses on identity groups – protected characteristic’s (more vested interest power groups), rather than the essential facts which make an individual person’s identity, which need defending so they can get on with their primary purpose of life and living unmolested. The current doctrine around equality and diversity of our personal identity is totally confused and in practice really means either or both of; equality and equality or total chaos where the community can have no common understanding. We are then either ruled as robots or divided and ruled.

But this situation does provide the opportunity for a beneficial reset precisely because the example of how most of the free world has so easily fallen into authoritarianism, (with as yet no light at the end of the tunnel), highlights just how badly formed our laws are protecting individual citizens and their right to make a living. The opportunity is to have a better go at getting this right so that a new bill of rights would be a further barrier to us so easily falling into authoritarianism again.

Authoritarianism, even Boris’s soft fluffy one, still ultimately destroys what is properly needed for personal growth our right to make our life and a living and therefore also identity.

Nobody
Posts: 286
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:05 pm

Re: We need a new Bill of Rights out of all this.

Post by Nobody »

Formalised rules are one thing, they need to relate to the institution of actual rights that are realised via possibilities in people's lives, for that, we need new institutions. And we need institutions that prevent the manipulation of outcomes via the use of legitimating scientific representations that, more or less, dictate outcomes without regard for the effects on people who are supposed to be the subject of state concern.
Here is an interesting piece of information from the US, In 1976 , when they rolled a swine flu vaccine, there were 53 deaths and the vaccine programme was immediately terminated, in 2021 there have been 4100 and nothing has been done. That indicates a massive change in the nature of the state and its relation to people.

Speedstick
Posts: 559
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:27 pm

Re: We need a new Bill of Rights out of all this.

Post by Speedstick »

This is a brilliant opening post in this thread JDee.
Of course it is true, a society can only grow if every individual within that society is allowed and encouraged to grow.
Every single individual has something to bring to humanity.
But of course those in power, get greedy with ownership of that power and the money that invariably comes with it.
Hence those in power do not want each individual to grow, only their chosen few, greed has been a human failing since the dawn of time and of course greed of big business and big pharma backed by big government is driving most of this sham currently going on to the furtherance of even greater power and greed. It is humanity as a whole that suffers because of this.

thinksaboutit
Posts: 674
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:38 am

Re: We need a new Bill of Rights out of all this.

Post by thinksaboutit »

Nobody wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:36 am Formalised rules are one thing, they need to relate to the institution of actual rights that are realised via possibilities in people's lives, for that, we need new institutions. And we need institutions that prevent the manipulation of outcomes via the use of legitimating scientific representations that, more or less, dictate outcomes without regard for the effects on people who are supposed to be the subject of state concern.
Here is an interesting piece of information from the US, In 1976 , when they rolled a swine flu vaccine, there were 53 deaths and the vaccine programme was immediately terminated, in 2021 there have been 4100 and nothing has been done. That indicates a massive change in the nature of the state and its relation to people.
Do you have some credible evidence your claimed 4100 deaths have a causal link to the vaccine?

Don't just quote the adverse reactions database, since that illustrates the coincidence between the 2 factors.

Read the following words from the CDC, if you don't believe this.

CDC uses the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) to closely monitor reports of death following COVID-19 vaccination.

FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS.
Reports to VAERS of death following vaccination do not necessarily mean the vaccine caused the death.
CDC follows up on any report of death to request additional information to learn more about what occurred and to determine whether the death was a result of the vaccine or was unrelated.


jmc
Posts: 435
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:01 am

Re: We need a new Bill of Rights out of all this.

Post by jmc »

thinksaboutit wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 4:47 pm
Nobody wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:36 am Formalised rules are one thing, they need to relate to the institution of actual rights that are realised via possibilities in people's lives, for that, we need new institutions. And we need institutions that prevent the manipulation of outcomes via the use of legitimating scientific representations that, more or less, dictate outcomes without regard for the effects on people who are supposed to be the subject of state concern.
Here is an interesting piece of information from the US, In 1976 , when they rolled a swine flu vaccine, there were 53 deaths and the vaccine programme was immediately terminated, in 2021 there have been 4100 and nothing has been done. That indicates a massive change in the nature of the state and its relation to people.
Do you have some credible evidence your claimed 4100 deaths have a causal link to the vaccine?

Don't just quote the adverse reactions database, since that illustrates the coincidence between the 2 factors.

Read the following words from the CDC, if you don't believe this.

CDC uses the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) to closely monitor reports of death following COVID-19 vaccination.

FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS.
Reports to VAERS of death following vaccination do not necessarily mean the vaccine caused the death.
CDC follows up on any report of death to request additional information to learn more about what occurred and to determine whether the death was a result of the vaccine or was unrelated.
All you need to know is that it causes about 100X times the recorded adverse reactions of the annual flu shot. For same health risk level over 60's, much lower under 60's.

And it is very well known (for several decades) that VAERS and other equivalent national databases only capture maybe 10% of all adverse reactions to vaccines. There is are quite a few papers on the subject in the literature. Always a problem with this kind of essentially ad-hoc recording system.

So if we apply the same very strict clinical criteria of causation that you demand from the adverse reaction mortality numbers then less than 1% of all claimed COVID deaths are "proved", clinically speaking, beyond doubt to be a SARs CoV2 primary cause deaths. In fact I would be very surprised if even 1% of all deaths had the required culture tests done to prove beyond doubt that the active viral infection was actually SARs CoV 2. After all there are at least half a dozen endemic causes of viral pneumonia. With similar symptoms and clinical pathology. And almost as many non viral causes of ARDS which can just as easily be diagnosed as a viral pneumonia.

So if you demand that a proof that a short term doubling of the death rate in a fully isolated population of old people during the vaccination period was actualy caused by the vaccines then I will demand exactly the same kind of proof for all those "COVID" deaths. Not just the WITH but the FROM's. Because in the vast majority of cases it does not exist. Just like it actually does nt for up to 10% of all deaths in any given year. Primary cause of death is often not very clear cut. You'd be surprised just how often a catch all cause is put on the death cert. They were old. They were in chronic bad health. And they picked up chronic respiratory infection on a previous hospital visit. Lets stick pneumonia in there.

Or in the case of hospitals in Italy and states like New York last year. Stick COVID on the cause of death and you get state or federal funds to cover treatment expenses. Put down the actual likely cause. Then no money for you. At least 1/3 the "COVID" deaths during certain periods last year where in that category.

If you are demanding irrefutable proof of adverse reaction deaths then I demand you put up irrefutable clinical proof of the COVID primary cause of deaths that you seem to believe. There is none. Because that's how the clinical diagnosis process and treatments works. At the best of times. They go through the process, maybe run some tests, and make a best estimate judgement. For the straight forward stuff they are usually on the right track. For the less obvious and clear cut, it's just a series of guesses. Sometimes informed, often just uninformed. Until they get it right, or the patient dies, or the patient just gets tired of the time wasting and deals with managing the situation as best they can.

Nobody
Posts: 286
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:05 pm

Re: We need a new Bill of Rights out of all this.

Post by Nobody »

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/peter-mc ... CVxYz.html

On the Fuellmich interviews, one of the lawyers says something like "it is everywhere" or "it is everything", referring to the endemic structural corruption of our institutions. Here, Tucker Carlson says something about the failure of American institutions to do the science.
What is behind these failures? How can there be all these massive technological advances and then it fail so spectacularly? Because it is the relational frameworks within science takes place that is the issue and the way that framework is corrupted by capital-interests.

thinksaboutit
Posts: 674
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:38 am

Re: We need a new Bill of Rights out of all this.

Post by thinksaboutit »

jmc wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 7:23 pm
thinksaboutit wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 4:47 pm
Nobody wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:36 am Formalised rules are one thing, they need to relate to the institution of actual rights that are realised via possibilities in people's lives, for that, we need new institutions. And we need institutions that prevent the manipulation of outcomes via the use of legitimating scientific representations that, more or less, dictate outcomes without regard for the effects on people who are supposed to be the subject of state concern.
Here is an interesting piece of information from the US, In 1976 , when they rolled a swine flu vaccine, there were 53 deaths and the vaccine programme was immediately terminated, in 2021 there have been 4100 and nothing has been done. That indicates a massive change in the nature of the state and its relation to people.
Do you have some credible evidence your claimed 4100 deaths have a causal link to the vaccine?

Don't just quote the adverse reactions database, since that illustrates the coincidence between the 2 factors.

Read the following words from the CDC, if you don't believe this.

CDC uses the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) to closely monitor reports of death following COVID-19 vaccination.

FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS.
Reports to VAERS of death following vaccination do not necessarily mean the vaccine caused the death.
CDC follows up on any report of death to request additional information to learn more about what occurred and to determine whether the death was a result of the vaccine or was unrelated.
All you need to know is that it causes about 100X times the recorded adverse reactions of the annual flu shot. For same health risk level over 60's, much lower under 60's.

And it is very well known (for several decades) that VAERS and other equivalent national databases only capture maybe 10% of all adverse reactions to vaccines. There is are quite a few papers on the subject in the literature. Always a problem with this kind of essentially ad-hoc recording system.

So if we apply the same very strict clinical criteria of causation that you demand from the adverse reaction mortality numbers then less than 1% of all claimed COVID deaths are "proved", clinically speaking, beyond doubt to be a SARs CoV2 primary cause deaths. In fact I would be very surprised if even 1% of all deaths had the required culture tests done to prove beyond doubt that the active viral infection was actually SARs CoV 2. After all there are at least half a dozen endemic causes of viral pneumonia. With similar symptoms and clinical pathology. And almost as many non viral causes of ARDS which can just as easily be diagnosed as a viral pneumonia.

So if you demand that a proof that a short term doubling of the death rate in a fully isolated population of old people during the vaccination period was actualy caused by the vaccines then I will demand exactly the same kind of proof for all those "COVID" deaths. Not just the WITH but the FROM's. Because in the vast majority of cases it does not exist. Just like it actually does nt for up to 10% of all deaths in any given year. Primary cause of death is often not very clear cut. You'd be surprised just how often a catch all cause is put on the death cert. They were old. They were in chronic bad health. And they picked up chronic respiratory infection on a previous hospital visit. Lets stick pneumonia in there.

Or in the case of hospitals in Italy and states like New York last year. Stick COVID on the cause of death and you get state or federal funds to cover treatment expenses. Put down the actual likely cause. Then no money for you. At least 1/3 the "COVID" deaths during certain periods last year where in that category.

If you are demanding irrefutable proof of adverse reaction deaths then I demand you put up irrefutable clinical proof of the COVID primary cause of deaths that you seem to believe. There is none. Because that's how the clinical diagnosis process and treatments works. At the best of times. They go through the process, maybe run some tests, and make a best estimate judgement. For the straight forward stuff they are usually on the right track. For the less obvious and clear cut, it's just a series of guesses. Sometimes informed, often just uninformed. Until they get it right, or the patient dies, or the patient just gets tired of the time wasting and deals with managing the situation as best they can.
You are just making things up...to support your anti-vaxx, covid-denying views.

Where did you get all these factors from?

You seem unable to support your assertions, with anything other than bluster!

What are you trying to achieve with your anti-vaxx campaign? Do you want the pandemic to last as long as possible and do the most harm?

Speedstick
Posts: 559
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:27 pm

Re: We need a new Bill of Rights out of all this.

Post by Speedstick »

Thinksaboutit why are you a 'Covid Vaccine Death Denier' ?
You have still never answered me on who gave you the right to play God!!!!

Nobody
Posts: 286
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:05 pm

Re: We need a new Bill of Rights out of all this.

Post by Nobody »

"You seem unable to support your assertions, with anything other than bluster!"

It is pretty erudite bluster. I always realise how bankrupt my supposed 'education' was after reading JMCs posts and I don't see where you can draw the conclusion of JMC being anti-vaxx.
This is not a vaccine like any other vaccine in history and so I think different criteria apply to its judgement, irrespective of its medical efficacy, it has a political efficacy in that social forces have been mobilised to force it upon the global population using home imprisonment as the lever to make it necessary. This vaccine is being institutionally constituted to elide our status as citizens, this transformation of the space of reasons within which it accedes to its significance make it a very special case, even if it was a highly effective and safe vaccine, which it is not.
The background of the vaccine is hardly anymore ennobling than the means via which it is rendered necessary. Look at the institutional agents behind it. Then look at the process of its production and dissemination. I found this online:

Based on a New York Times op ed by Peter Doshi and Eric Topol—the clinical trials of the COVID vaccine conducted by Pfizer, AstraZeneca, and Moderna were designed to prove nothing more than: [2] [3]

The vaccine could prevent a cough, or chills and fever (diagnosed as COVID-19).

That’s right.

Now follow this. The vaccine makers were waiting for the SARS-CoV-2 virus to descend on some volunteers during the clinical trials.

But since the volunteers were healthy, how long would it take for “serious cases of COVID”—pneumonia—to show up? Three years? Ten years? Never?

The vaccine makers certainly weren’t going to wait. No, they were going to stop the clinical trial when 150 of the 30,000 volunteers were diagnosed with “mild COVID”—a cough, or chills and fever.

Then they were going to see how many people who actually got the vaccine vs. how many people who got a saltwater placebo shot received a COVID-19 diagnosis.

THAT was the essence of the clinical trial.

Of course, all three vaccine makers claimed that far more people in the placebo group were diagnosed with COVID—thus “proving” the vaccine was effective.

Effective at preventing “a mild case of COVID”—a cough, or chills and fever—both of which cure themselves naturally, without the need for a vaccine.

There’s your vaccine science.

A show for buffoons.

So now, as vaccine-caused deaths escalate daily [4], this destructive genetic shot is being given to people all over the world [5] [6] [7]. There is no authentic informed consent that spells out the incredible danger. And the vaccine was never meant to prevent more than a cold or mild flu.

https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2021/05 ... ning-news/

Who is going to be against safe treatments for maladies? But look at the pharmaceuticals industry, all them have an appalling track record and are little more than criminal organisations. I saw one report that one of the vaccine manufacturers was trying to barter vaccines against military bases in Argentina. That is how much they care about human health. As one American doctor said, "this is the same people who gave us the opiates epidemic, if you think they give two squirts of piss about your health, you are fucking delusional".
It is time we all, everyone, everywhere, realised that the state institutions supposed to ensure our well being and allow people to flourish do nothing of the sort. Failing to consider safe alternatives, that video I linked last night gave evidence of faked studies to discredit alternatives, all self-interested production using the institutional apparatus that produces legitimating and de-legitimating representations on which decisions are made: attempts to manipulate public policy decisions; failing to treat people early (go home and wait it out), the lockdowns, in the face of evidence of immunity among many, the whole thing has been a catalogue of failures to consider the safety and well being of the population and, not merely that, of the failure of democratic processes and of wider institutions. Why? To protect professional groups and ensure their security. The pandemic shows the wholesale failure of our civil institutions, globally. Why? Because the political processes are morally bankrupt.

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