Vaccine and T-cell response

Treatments and their effectiveness, herd immunity, masks, testing, etc.
Nobody
Posts: 289
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:05 pm

Re: Vaccine and T-cell response

Post by Nobody »

I have seen a number of people say it.

Splatt
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:46 am

Re: Vaccine and T-cell response

Post by Splatt »

Nobody wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 6:55 pm I have seen a number of people say it.
I've seen quite a few people say they believe in Santa Clause, think the moon landings never happened or think God is real.
Doesnt make it true.

If you want to catch covid, a nice trip to India or Brazil should do the job relatively quickly.

thinksaboutit
Posts: 675
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:38 am

Re: Vaccine and T-cell response

Post by thinksaboutit »

Nobody wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 6:55 pm I have seen a number of people say it.
Who? That is credible... Answer is no-one.
They couldn't, because not enough time has passed.

Nobody
Posts: 289
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:05 pm

Re: Vaccine and T-cell response

Post by Nobody »

Dolores Cahill and Mike Yeadon both say it. They qualify it but there word is good enough for me.

Splatt
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:46 am

Re: Vaccine and T-cell response

Post by Splatt »

Nobody wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:27 am Dolores Cahill and Mike Yeadon both say it. They qualify it but there word is good enough for me.
Which neatly sums up the problem.

You're happy to accept the ratings of people that are in this for the publicity and been proven incorrect on every single statement they make.
You make no attempt to fact check or research and just blindly accept it.

May as well accept the views of David Icke or Alex Jones on geopolitics.

Speedstick
Posts: 562
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:27 pm

Re: Vaccine and T-cell response

Post by Speedstick »

Rather like not enough time has elapsed to judge the true efficacy of the vaccination programme Thinksaboutit, but you are happy to champion that.
All your posts are so unbalanced just recycled government /Sage hogwash.
It seems more rational to consider T-cells give lengthy if not lifelong immunity, than your claim of vaccine efficacy.

thinksaboutit
Posts: 675
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:38 am

Re: Vaccine and T-cell response

Post by thinksaboutit »

Nobody wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:27 am Dolores Cahill and Mike Yeadon both say it. They qualify it but there word is good enough for me.
Well you have a low threshold for evidence!

If you are every asked to serve on a jury, please explain that you will be unable to process evidence rationally and should be excused.

Jane G
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:29 pm

Re: Vaccine and T-cell response

Post by Jane G »

thinksaboutit wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 1:50 pm
Nobody wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:27 am Dolores Cahill and Mike Yeadon both say it. They qualify it but there word is good enough for me.
Well you have a low threshold for evidence!

If you are every asked to serve on a jury, please explain that you will be unable to process evidence rationally and should be excused.
I seem to recall T cell responses being found in blood samples from SarsCoV1 after over a decade? This is considerably longer than the vaccine appears to offer when the third jab is about to be wheeled out.

jmc
Posts: 436
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:01 am

Re: Vaccine and T-cell response

Post by jmc »

Jane G wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 1:49 pm
thinksaboutit wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 1:50 pm
Nobody wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:27 am Dolores Cahill and Mike Yeadon both say it. They qualify it but there word is good enough for me.
Well you have a low threshold for evidence!

If you are every asked to serve on a jury, please explain that you will be unable to process evidence rationally and should be excused.
I seem to recall T cell responses being found in blood samples from SarsCoV1 after over a decade? This is considerably longer than the vaccine appears to offer when the third jab is about to be wheeled out.
Like so much involving human corona-viruses (HCOV) there is not that much published research on long term immunity response to HCOV infections. But fading after 8 to 10 years for most people looks like a reasonable number. Based on what has been published.

Which is why you tend to get a very nasty "cold" about once or twice a decade as an adult. Just natures way of jump starting your immune system for its daily exposure to endemic HCOV's. After being fully trained up by childhood exposure to dozens of infections.

There is no reason to believe that any HCOV vaccine will either be higher efficacy or longer lasting than influenza vaccines. So 20% to 50% efficacy with 12 to 18 months immunity decay.

If the HCOV vaccines were are safe as the influenza vaccines there would be no problem taking them as just a placebo. Which they will be essentially for most people. But at almost 100 times the mortality rate for a lower health risk. Not a good trade off.

DJ3
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed May 12, 2021 8:07 am

Re: Vaccine and T-cell response

Post by DJ3 »

guy153 wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:58 pm
It might be worth having some TCR epitopes for non-spike parts but I think
people are worrying too much about immune escape. The total number of TCR
epitopes is somewhere in the thousands (of which ~100s or so are on the spike).

It's going to take a lot of mutations to escape those.
I would respectfully disagree with this.

The 1000s of T-cell epitopes I suspect comes from a predictive analysis based on length and sequence of known HLA-binding residues. But this ignores the fact that a) the proteosome and other parts of processing/presentation machinery need to also generate these epitopes, and related, b) not all of these will be immunogenic.

I think this paper is worth reading:
https://immunology.sciencemag.org/content/6/58/eabf7550
Note Fig 1 & 2.

In summary, they used algorithms to predict a few 1000 epitopes, and found 122 immunodominant. Look at the patient responses and look how most of these are from ORF1, and patients either generally have very few T-cell responses to S (spike) or even none at all.

As such, if this holds, our current vaccines are not generating T-cell responses and T-cell memory to the most immunogenic regions of the virus. In some patients (probably HLA-type related), the vaccines might not generate any meaningful T-cell responses at all...

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