Vaccine Claims

Treatments and their effectiveness, herd immunity, masks, testing, etc.
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MikeAustin
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Re: Vaccine Claims

Post by MikeAustin »

[/quote]
StPiosCafe wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 9:59 am
MikeAustin wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:08 am
We both use ONS and NHS data, not ZOE. These categorise using PCR.
We don't clutch - but we have a better grasp than you, it would appear.
Wrong. I use the ZOE app and the mid winter surge can be seen with zero PCR or other chemical tests. It was real , no truth whatsoever in Casedemic the idea. There was a massive surge in cases, not related to vaccines (since vaccines reduced cases in all trials and survey) but they take weeks to kick in. Massive surge in cases caused concomitant surge in deaths. What is there to talk about?
"We" refers to Joel Smalley and me. This should have been clear in the second sentence, if you read that far.

miahoneybee
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Re: Vaccine Claims

Post by miahoneybee »

:lol: :lol: :lol:
I missed your concise humour mike A..
:lol: :lol:

Speedstick
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Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:27 pm

Re: Vaccine Claims

Post by Speedstick »

Great work here again from you Mike, l take my hat off to you.
I find it bemusing how graphs, bar charts and Venn diagrams etc have been used by government/SAGE to bamboozle and inflict mortal fear into the populace that Goebbels would have been proud of, are then dismissed by the very same people when that data is questioned or proved inaccurate/wrong.

StPiosCafe
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Re: Vaccine Claims

Post by StPiosCafe »

MikeAustin wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:54 am
StPiosCafe wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 9:59 am Wrong. I use the ZOE app and the mid winter surge can be seen with zero PCR or other chemical tests. It was real , no truth whatsoever in Casedemic the idea. There was a massive surge in cases, not related to vaccines (since vaccines reduced cases in all trials and survey) but they take weeks to kick in. Massive surge in cases caused concomitant surge in deaths. What is there to talk about?
"We" refers to Joel Smalley and me.
[/quote]

You are stubborn, I'll give you that. I have shown a plot containing no ONS or NHS data that the surge is registered in the ZOE app. Hence, no PCR false positives in that reckoning. So you know there was a real surge that explains the rise in deaths. No need to resort to the triple application of a gompertz function or weird vaccine cover-up yarns, since the cases were real and the deaths concomitant with real cases, since they are linked.

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MikeAustin
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Re: Vaccine Claims

Post by MikeAustin »

StPiosCafe wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:34 pm
MikeAustin wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:54 am
StPiosCafe wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 9:59 am Wrong. I use the ZOE app and the mid winter surge can be seen with zero PCR or other chemical tests. It was real , no truth whatsoever in Casedemic the idea. There was a massive surge in cases, not related to vaccines (since vaccines reduced cases in all trials and survey) but they take weeks to kick in. Massive surge in cases caused concomitant surge in deaths. What is there to talk about?
"We" refers to Joel Smalley and me.
You are stubborn, I'll give you that. I have shown a plot containing no ONS or NHS data that the surge is registered in the ZOE app.
I thank you for your generosity.

From the ZOE page here:
This means that although users can log for relatives, our estimates don't include many cases in hospitals, care homes and other communities where the app usage is subpar or non-existent.
From my earlier post:
MikeAustin wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:02 pm Deaths had been following the normal seasonal average, plus a bit, for weeks. Then they shot up. And they shot up later than the normal seasonal peak. And they shot up in care homes and hospitals - not at home.
And you said:
So you know there was a real surge that explains the rise in deaths.
I am afraid my knowledge is rather limited to the facts and doesn't extend into the realm of unrelated and spurious data in which you seem quite at home.

StPiosCafe
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Re: Vaccine Claims

Post by StPiosCafe »

MikeAustin wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:14 pm
StPiosCafe wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:34 pm
I thank you for your generosity.
You are most welcome.

But what was you point again? That a surge in deaths followed an observed surge in cases as they do? Or were you saying that vaccinations killed people by giving them covid19, or did you mean that vaccination killed them, but they did not have covid19. Or did you say there was no surge in cases? What exactly are you claiming?

StPiosCafe
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Re: Vaccine Claims

Post by StPiosCafe »

StPiosCafe wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:34 pm
MikeAustin wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:54 am they shot up in care homes and hospitals - not at home
So you know there was a real surge . Cases shot up after Kent variant emerged, deaths followed as night follows day. mystery solved. Nothing much to do with vaccine.

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MikeAustin
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Re: Vaccine Claims

Post by MikeAustin »

StPiosCafe wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:07 pm But what was you point again? That a surge in deaths followed an observed surge in cases as they do? Or were you saying that vaccinations killed people by giving them covid19, or did you mean that vaccination killed them, but they did not have covid19. Or did you say there was no surge in cases? What exactly are you claiming?
Now please concentrate.
The 'cases' that you refer to were all via the ZOE app from the general public. OK?
The deaths that I refer to were all hospital and care home deaths. OK?
An increase in 'cases' among the general public has no connection with an increase in deaths in hospitals and care homes. OK?
There must be another explanation. Ok?
The timing of the vaccination programme, particularly in care homes, correlates with the deaths in the same places. Ok?
Fatal infections in all care homes are unlikely to break out at the same time. Ok?
Unless some other explanation is forthcoming, it is a tenable hypothesis that vaccinations caused deaths. Ok?

miahoneybee
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Re: Vaccine Claims

Post by miahoneybee »


StPiosCafe
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Re: Vaccine Claims

Post by StPiosCafe »

MikeAustin wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:45 pm The 'cases' that you refer to were all via the ZOE app from the general public. OK?
More or less, a bit of a bias towards medics, since they popularised ZOE.
The deaths that I refer to were all hospital and care home deaths. OK?
An increase in 'cases' among the general public has no connection with an increase in deaths in hospitals and care homes. OK?
Of course there is a connection, the disease comes from outside into the care homes. If there is more outside, you get more inside obvsly. If there is none outside, you get none inside obvsly.
The timing of the vaccination programme, particularly in care homes, correlates with the deaths in the same places. Ok?
The winter surge occurred with the start of the vaccination programme as well.

So you get to pick, which correlation does not imply causation do you prefer? Surge or vaccination. I'll chose for you - Surge please!
Fatal infections in all care homes are unlikely to break out at the same time. Ok?
It's quite likely, anyway it happened in the first wave.
Unless some other explanation is forthcoming, it is a tenable hypothesis that vaccinations caused deaths. Ok?
It's about as tenable as saying perhaps they mixed up the vaccine with the bleach. Anyway, we know the causes of death, it was covid19, not adverse vaccine reactions. It shows covid19 is the cause in your own plots. The most economic explanation is that the virus got in the nursing homes due to all the coming and going in the vaccination campaigns.

Or are you suggesting the vaccine gives people covid19?Or lowers their immunity so they get covid19 more easily? What exactly is your hypothesis? That vaccinations caused covid19 deaths. How could that happen?

This is just conspiracy piled on conspiracy!

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