Getting the message out

1984
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:11 am

Re: Getting the message out

Post by 1984 »

He questions the plausibility of the 500K because it is a large number. Which is kind off dumb in itself.

miahoneybee
Posts: 1493
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:26 pm

Re: Getting the message out

Post by miahoneybee »

Richard t mike and speedstick.. you dont need to prove a thing to anyone.. as said before pointless with the 77th brigade..we all know it was a fantastic day with a huge number attending who came from far and wide..
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jmc
Posts: 441
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:01 am

Re: Getting the message out

Post by jmc »

thinksaboutit wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:42 am
RichardTechnik wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:50 pm
thinksaboutit wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:07 am

Evidence please......your judgement is not to be trusted.

Either a photo of 11km route completely full of idiots, or 4 to 5 hours of video showing ambling idiots passing one point, with completely packed streets.
There's plenty of photos and time lapse videos to be found if you care to look, thinks. Trouble is I don't recall many 'idiots' amongst them. As for trusting my judgement - well, that's up to you. I do my own research in that respect; I wouldn't be asking you to provide me with anything.
No I don't care to look. If you claim 500k people, you justify it.
There obviously isn't the evidence and if you think what your claim means - it is close to 1% of the UK population.

How plausible is that?
Fascinating. Someone who demands personal estimates be "proved" yet seems to be totally ignorant not only of the evidence but of how crowds like this are estimated.

Know what gridding is? Or how about point flow density pedestrian estimates?

Nope. Not a clue. Because if you did you would be asking for "proof". No such thing. Except at ticketed events. And even then, you would be surprised..

I have seen so far no good news helicopter (timestamped) footage of central London that day. The only publicly available data available for gridding or point flow estimates. This footage was invaluable during the gilet jaune demos in France when the prefet de police deliberately greatly understated the size of demonstrations. The prefet office said less than 100K when gridding from aerial footage showed 300K plus for the main stream and feeders. And a lot more at the really big demos.

Of course the Met has a very good idea of how many turned up. They had live feed cameras everywhere and the realtime software to do the ID and counting. But you will never see that number. Even with a FOI. Because the info they collected I suspect is very very illegal.

The only relatively long time sample video I've seen so far was of a feeder stream (no timestamp). The video caught maybe 2/3'sd of the crowd passing a point. Good estimate of that single feeder would be in the 40K/45K range. Given the diffuse nature of the demo compared to most big demos at least a 5X multiplier would be the lowest reasonable estimate. With 10X being the highest plausible for total participants during the whole day. There is a pretty high coming and going of participants during these events. Up to half of participants arriving late / leaving early. That sort of thing. Plus a multi-focus event would have a higher multiple of total participants than a single focus event. This demo looked much more like a multi-focus event.

Without very good helicopters shots running to 5 / 10 mins the estimates will always be just that. Estimates. Based on comparisons with other demos with pretty accurate estimates the London event did not feel like a 500K event. I'd guess more in the 300K to 200K range based on what I saw. For the whole day. With a single point max well into the six digits. Which is pretty impressive given the amount of active suppression and propaganda and threats used by the government and police against the demonstrators and potential demonstrators for the last year. Unprecedented in peacetime.

I think the only real proof needed in this thread is that those asking for "proof" of the size of the crowd might provide some proof of their own bona fides as to why they are demanding this "proof" in the first place.

fon
Posts: 1312
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:47 pm

Re: Getting the message out

Post by fon »

thinksaboutit wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:07 am idiots.... idiots .... idiots...
You do not know the protesters well, yet you call them parading idiots,crackpot idiots,full of idiots, ambling idiots, on and on you go, as if they would become idiots at your behest .. . exactly how many hundreds of thousands marched is impossible to know.

But we do know it was a huge gathering, which ought to have had extensive coverage on the BBC. It was a shocking, vile political act to turn a blind eye to such a large congregation in Central London. If a movement can summon so much passion amongst diverse ordinary people, the reason for the unrest should be discussed. We have often before dismissed the concerns of diverse ordinary people, but I had hoped we had turned away from that sort of divisionary politics. The protesters might be correct, they might be wrong, the establishment might be correct or it might be wrong in some areas.

The mass disregard of the protest by the MSM is disturbing, they have failed in their job, to objectively report on the important issues of the day. They behaved apallingly. But the BBC has to be broken up now and be defunded. They had their chance, they blew it by not following the Reithian values of balance and impartiality. We cannot allow that to happen again.It has been a stunning failure by the BBC, which we are taxed to pay for.

Occamsrazor
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Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:14 pm

Re: Getting the message out

Post by Occamsrazor »

Thanks for replying funtimes. I hear what you say. Making excuses I know but I'm in a very small minority of a very small minority, being what most Sceptics would deem a socialist hippie! It's.a particularly uncomfortable place to be but I suppose at least I have the element of surprise when I make clear to my unthinking friends what I feel and they can't accuse me of only having my beliefs because I'm 'right wing' and other such stupidity.
Speaking of which, to those who claim the march was tiny, whilst of course I didn't stand there counting, I have been on many many climate marches over the years and this felt very much the same as the largest of those.
It was certainly well into 6 figures and 500,000 wouldn't surprise me.

fon
Posts: 1312
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:47 pm

Re: Getting the message out

Post by fon »

RichardTechnik wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:53 pm
thinksaboutit wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:58 pm
NOW you have moved to defacing the countryside, with your stickers.
If the stickers annoy you turn your attention to these:
Screenshot 2021-05-01 at 12.41.40.png
Screenshot 2021-05-01 at 12.41.40.png (63.62 KiB) Viewed 188 times

thinksaboutit
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Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:38 am

Re: Getting the message out

Post by thinksaboutit »

MikeAustin wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 12:46 am I was near the front of the protest. I stopped and waited until the last protesters went by. It looked like 500,000 to me. The many video clips - particularly the aerial views - would suggest the same. But nothing can be shown to someone who will not see.
People came from all over the country, but talking percentages of population is meaningless. Imagine the current situation without lockdowns, social distancing, masks, coerced jabs and imminent covid passports. Would you get anyone at all travelling to London to protest for them?
So you have applied your biased judgement!

Or did you stand on that same spot for 4 to 5 hours assessing the density of protesters, to construct your estimate.

Talking % of population is a useful way to sanity check an estimate. That's why you don't like the method.

Sky news estimates at least 10k protesters. Your estimate is 50x bigger.

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-stree ... n-12285712

thinksaboutit
Posts: 676
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:38 am

Re: Getting the message out

Post by thinksaboutit »

miahoneybee wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 10:05 am Richard t mike and speedstick.. you dont need to prove a thing to anyone.. as said before pointless with the 77th brigade..we all know it was a fantastic day with a huge number attending who came from far and wide..
πŸ˜‰πŸ˜‰πŸ˜‰πŸ˜Šβ˜ΊπŸ‘
Ah.. the sceptics' methodology condensed to a few words.

"you don't need to prove a thing to anyone".... just make things up!

Splatt
Posts: 1583
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:46 am

Re: Getting the message out

Post by Splatt »

Don't usually see those stickers attached to outside natural landmarks and areas though...

RichardTechnik
Posts: 287
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:01 am

Re: Getting the message out

Post by RichardTechnik »

thinksaboutit wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:42 am
RichardTechnik wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:50 pm
thinksaboutit wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:07 am

Evidence please......your judgement is not to be trusted.

Either a photo of 11km route completely full of idiots, or 4 to 5 hours of video showing ambling idiots passing one point, with completely packed streets.
There's plenty of photos and time lapse videos to be found if you care to look, thinks. Trouble is I don't recall many 'idiots' amongst them. As for trusting my judgement - well, that's up to you. I do my own research in that respect; I wouldn't be asking you to provide me with anything.
No I don't care to look. If you claim 500k people, you justify it.
There obviously isn't the evidence and if you think what your claim means - it is close to 1% of the UK population.

How plausible is that?
Bluster all you like. I am well aware of what 480k is - about 0.72% of the population of the UK. You may not be aware that there were similar in Liverpool and Glasgow. I'm not that nimble that I could have visited each. Thinkabout this, thinks; for everyone I knew who had travelled to London there were more that another dozen, I have spoken to since who wished they had been able or would have gone had they known where it had started from. Thats about 1 in 10 of the the population who have not been brainwashed into dutifully following the compliance/fear narrative. Look around you next time you venture out, thinks - in that crowd in the street there's 1 in 10 who reject the position you insist on promoting.

.....................and that number is growing by the week. :D

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