'Vaccine' is experimental Gene Therapy: Steven Hotze, M.D.

Treatments and their effectiveness, herd immunity, masks, testing, etc.
Splatt
Posts: 1583
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:46 am

Re: 'Vaccine' is experimental Gene Therapy: Steven Hotze, M.D.

Post by Splatt »

Speedstick wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:52 am However Splatt l still also believe over reliance on medications is also creating the sharp rise in auto immune disease, the fact is l don't know, you don't know and the whole of medical science doesn't know, and yet it claims vaccines are safe. Please define safe????
Except this has been studies and not a single shred of data has ever been found to back that up.
Never. Not once.

Safe is defined quite clearly by whatever regulator the country has along with the Phase 1/3 studies.

TheHandbag
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:43 pm

Re: 'Vaccine' is experimental Gene Therapy: Steven Hotze, M.D.

Post by TheHandbag »

Slightly tangential, but I found this article a couple of days ago and thought it was a great example of the press trying to introduce the idea of gene therapy as normal and mundane, and another of those “inventions that changed the world”. (Like dear old vaccines). What I found interesting was the deliberately obscure explanations, and then the ease and cheapness of the end of line production. Take home message - you can easily tweak or “patch” mRNA therapies. The ethical standard for this type of technology’s use in humans requires the illness or disability to be irreversible and life-shortening. Or something of the severity of cancer. There needs to be no other hope. It also actually doesn’t seem to work for long, and this child died earlier this year.

I have deep reservations about vaccines generally. I have even more profound ones regarding covid “vaccination” because in order to justify this rushed out technology or even an old fashioned vaccine you have to have no alternative therapies. The existence of HCQ, Ivermectin and Salbutamol (to name but 3 mainstream, cheap therapies) obviates that need in my opinion. Moreover it has to be something really fatal, which Covid-19 is not.

The small number of deaths from flu vaccines, coupled with the increased threat from flu to the very young and the very old, could be said to justify its use on the NHS for those that want/need it.

In contrast to the flu vaccine, Covid vaccines have managed, over the course of 4 months, to kill over double the number of people in the UK that the flu vaccine killed in 68 years. All this death for a disease that is by and large highly survivable, and whose novelty to the human race, coupled with a larger than ever elderly population makes it appear more dangerous than it really is. That’s a quite shocking comparison, and means there is a strong justification for stopping mass Covid vaccination with immediate effect.

I personally also believe that if this proves to be highly debilitating to the younger and fitter, from autoimmune reactions, we risk losing vitally important key frontline workers permanently from the workforce, and our rate of replacement will be too slow to cover the shortfall. More than that, our social care bill will rocket, paying benefits to all these sick people, and if we vaccinate the young and healthy, we will have no robust population from which to replace when the time comes. Put that in the context of the military and nuclear power, and I think there’s a strong argument for keeping at least a “covid vaccine-free” sector of the population at all times so we don’t lose the protection and expertise of people who work in these vital areas.

That the volunteers weren’t given full information is criminal. That governments colluded is frightening. The depths of corruption and malpractice surrounding both pharmaceuticals generally, and vaccines in particular, is extremely frightening. Once you really start to dig about in the dirt of this subject, you can’t close your eyes and think of England when next submitting to some medical intervention that is theoretically for your own good.

To find discourse drifting towards coercive control and childish classroom management techniques, where no one can have a holiday until EVERYONE is protected, is quite sickening. Especially in the absence of proper informed consent from the people on whose voluntary sacrifice, (and it’s extremely short-term outcome), was the catalyst for this entire vaccination program.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/milasen ... ne-therapy

fon
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Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:47 pm

Re: 'Vaccine' is experimental Gene Therapy: Steven Hotze, M.D.

Post by fon »

MikeAustin wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:56 am I shall jump screaming off the Clifton Suspension Bridge, predictably dying of covid when I hit the ground.
It's a beautiful place to do it. But really, this gene therapy nonsense is just squibbling about nomenclature. The covidiots/anti-vaxxers are trying to attach the idea of vaccination to a boggyman, gene therapy. It's just desperate hogwash.

Splatt
Posts: 1583
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:46 am

Re: 'Vaccine' is experimental Gene Therapy: Steven Hotze, M.D.

Post by Splatt »

Severn Bridge is better.

If someone does it from Clifton it closes the road to users for ages and causes disruption to innocents.

Go 15 mins further and step off the Severn bridge. Then its a victimless action!

amanuensis
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:32 pm

Re: 'Vaccine' is experimental Gene Therapy: Steven Hotze, M.D.

Post by amanuensis »

Neither adenovirus vector or mRNA vaccines are 'gene therapy' as most (experts) would understand the term.

There might be issues with the vaccines, but they'll be to do with what they're encoding, either directly (eg, does the spike protein bind with something in the body that causes a rare dangerous side effect), via the immune response (eg does it lead to ADE/VAERD) or the response of the virus to the type of immunity offered (eg, does universal vaccination lead to increased risk of vaccine escape).

Both mRNA and adenovirus vector approach technologies appear to be rather safe in themselves.

As an aside, there is also perhaps an issue with adenovirus vector vaccines as a general approach, in that you only really get 'two shots' per vector. Sure there are lots of potential vectors out there, but each one takes time to develop and, arguably, we shouldn't be wasting potential vectors providing poor protection for people who don't have any particular risk from the disease. This is doubly true when they start talking about 'annual boosters'. But that's an issue about 'how should we use potentially limited resources' rather than safety.

miahoneybee
Posts: 1493
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:26 pm

Re: 'Vaccine' is experimental Gene Therapy: Steven Hotze, M.D.

Post by miahoneybee »

:lol: :lol: :lol: speedstick..I agree whole heartedly with your post..my mind will not be changed by the government stooges/trolls on here either..
Ignore the 77th brigade and save lives..I mean time..
:D :lol:

jmc
Posts: 441
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:01 am

Re: 'Vaccine' is experimental Gene Therapy: Steven Hotze, M.D.

Post by jmc »

amanuensis wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:25 am Neither adenovirus vector or mRNA vaccines are 'gene therapy' as most (experts) would understand the term.

There might be issues with the vaccines, but they'll be to do with what they're encoding, either directly (eg, does the spike protein bind with something in the body that causes a rare dangerous side effect), via the immune response (eg does it lead to ADE/VAERD) or the response of the virus to the type of immunity offered (eg, does universal vaccination lead to increased risk of vaccine escape).

Both mRNA and adenovirus vector approach technologies appear to be rather safe in themselves.

As an aside, there is also perhaps an issue with adenovirus vector vaccines as a general approach, in that you only really get 'two shots' per vector. Sure there are lots of potential vectors out there, but each one takes time to develop and, arguably, we shouldn't be wasting potential vectors providing poor protection for people who don't have any particular risk from the disease. This is doubly true when they start talking about 'annual boosters'. But that's an issue about 'how should we use potentially limited resources' rather than safety.
I think a very large part of the problem is that these vaccines and gene therapy look remarkably alike. The only substantive difference is the intended and expected response of the target cell. They use the same kind of vectors. They are created using the same processes. Its only when they get a response from the target cell that they start to seriously differ. Gene therapy is intended to modify the behavior of some part of the genetic material in the target cell. These vaccines are intended to elicit only an immuno-response from the target cells.

Looking at the wording of the difference between the two in a standard textbook on the subject I get the feeling that the differentiation came about more as a result of differing regulatory regimes more than anything else. Vaccines had a well established regulatory process going back many decades. Gene therapy was a novel process which required a new regulatory process. That seems to be the major difference as I read it.
Gene therapy medicinal products do not include vaccines against infectious diseases. For the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA), gene therapy is the administration of genetic material to modify or manipulate the expression of a gene product or to alter the biological properties of living cells for therapeutic use [2]
(Page 1)
https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Gene-Ce ... B08BZ777X9

A fascinating read. Some pretty impressive results.

fon
Posts: 1312
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:47 pm

Re: 'Vaccine' is experimental Gene Therapy: Steven Hotze, M.D.

Post by fon »

Speedstick wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:42 pm my flipping choice!!!!
I could not have said it better it's my flipping choice to quote the Bard: A rose by any other name would smell as sweet, meaning the vaccine would work as well and be exactly as safe (or unsafe) whatever name we use for it. It's my choice!!!!

Speedstick
Posts: 566
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:27 pm

Re: 'Vaccine' is experimental Gene Therapy: Steven Hotze, M.D.

Post by Speedstick »

Thanks for your support Miahoneybee. The trolls just strengthen my resolve to overcome the adversity they seek to create with their toxic dystopian agenda.
Good will always conquer evil, but sometimes unfortunately the road is long.

fon
Posts: 1312
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:47 pm

Re: 'Vaccine' is experimental Gene Therapy: Steven Hotze, M.D.

Post by fon »

TheHandbag wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:55 pm
"ease" , cheapness of the end of line production. Take home message - you can easily tweak or “patch” mRNA therapies. The ethical standard for this type of technology’s use in humans requires the illness or disability to be irreversible and life-shortening. Or something of the severity of cancer. There needs to be no other hope. It also actually doesn’t seem to work for long, and this child died earlier this year.
The words tweak and patch and not in the article. The words "ease" and "cheap" and therapy are missing from the article I read. No mention is made of cancer or terminal, did you give the right link? The word vaccine is also missing.

The only thing you got right is that the patient died, which is hardly an endorsement.


Are you against all forms of progress?

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